Fed up medic :(

[sunshineroll]

Name change!

I applied for medicine aged 17 and now feel like I had no idea what I was signing up for. I am about to go into my 6th (and final) year and feel so disheartened by the whole thing. I feel like I've been working a full time job for the last 3 years at least but with no pay, no respect and no control over my own life and I'm already having sleepless nights about the prospect of working as a doctor before I've even qualified! In short:

-I'm quite an anxious person and don't handle stress well
-I'm quite sensitive and end up going home upset several times a week about things I've seen in the hospital
-I dislike the stress of the hospital environment and would have to work there for at least 5 years before moving into community
-I'm very concerned about working night shifts
-I feel like I have little say in where I will live and work - at this rate I will not be able to move in with my boyfriend for at least another 3 years
-I do not want to be taking exams for the rest of my life!

But most worryingly, the majority of doctors I meet are very disheartened and tell me to leave! I have friends who are already qualified who are all looking to get out ... they tell me they have no say in when they are working and regularly have to cancel plans (including holidays) due to last minute rota changes - one was not even allowed leave for her best friend's funeral.

Despite doing well in my exams, I just feel like medicine is a lifestyle I am not cut out for - ultimately I could handle the hours and stress if it was a job I truly enjoyed, but I just do not think this will be the case and am getting more and more worried about the future

so my questions are

• has anyone qualified in medicine and chosen not to practice? has anyone become a dr and then left?

-what job options are there for someone graduating in medicine who does not wish to work as a doctor?!

I'd be grateful for any advice (and even more grateful for anyone with some positive stories about how it isn't that bad!!)

@HoppingPavlova ICU was my specialty too. Clinically it's a great job - varied, interesting, challenging, exciting. But the administrators and bureaucrats are constantly pushing you to do more and more with less and less; and when the inevitable disasters happen blaming clinicians even when it's precisely what you warned them would happen. It's soul-destroying. And tragic.

Re what my family and friends thought-

My husband never pressured me to stay and has been fully supportive.

My parents did pressure me to stay. It's how I ended up sticking it out for 8 years. Their favourite line was to 'just give it another 6 months' or 'wait until you are out of hospital and in general practice' (which I disliked even more than hospital medicine - I found it relentless and lonely stuck in my consulting room). They were disappointed I left but ultimately when I explained exactly how bad I felt (forcing myself to drive to work when I wanted to run in the opposite direction, counting down the minutes until my clinic was over etc) they accepted it. I still feel sad that I have disappointed them. But I was sacrificing my happiness to keep them happy which is just ridiculous. You only have one life, this is not about anybody else, it's your life, and it's your responsibility to make the best choices you can for yourself.

My friends were great. Nobody judged. They all trot out the same line 'but you have studied for sooooooo long!' but beyond that nobody really cared.

By the way, unless people have worked in medicine before I really believe that they just cannot comprehend what it is like. Having peoples lives in your hands doesn't compare to the vast majority of stressful jobs.

Leaving medicine is a bit of a taboo subject. By all means give F1 a try if you want to - it might help you to crystallise your decision if you find it as bad as you are expecting and could help you to have fewer regrets down the line. But don't do what I did and suffer for years doing something that makes you unhappy.

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But the administrators and bureaucrats are constantly pushing you to do more and more with less and less; and when the inevitable disasters happen blaming clinicians even when it's precisely what you warned them would happen. It's soul-destroying. And tragic.

Precisely. It’s the same story everywhere. Seemed to really pound Emergency first though which is why I jumped before some of my colleagues.

As I said earlier another thing that cemented my decision was the morphing of patients over the years from normal nice people to complete know it all arseholes (if not on ice where they were just violent arseholes). The friend I had dinner with obviously doesn’t have that with patients (has it pretty good in ICU in that regard ) but they said they have definitely found the same change over the years with patients families minus the ice issue obviously. Not sure whether your experience has been similar?

OP, definitely finish your course and get your degree. And I’d suggest at least doing your foundation year - it’s hugely different being a doctor to being a medical student, and very much more satisfying.
The hours are way more civilised than they used to be. I worked 100 hours a week on average as a junior doc, including a gruelling 80 hour continuous shift from Fri morning to Mon night, non stop. That’s now illegal, thankfully!
As a junior, you have two levels of more experienced doctors working with you and responsible for you, so there is always someone to ask if you’re not sure about anything. Again, that’s a big improvement on the old “See one, do one, teach one” attitude of my own training years!
Honestly, being a doctor is the most satisfying, challenging, humbling, stimulating, amazing career imaginable. You have the privilege of being with people through the biggest crises of their lives, at their most vulnerable, and earning their trust and helping them. The first time you save a patient’s life you will float out of the hospital feeling you can walk on water! And the times when you couldn’t save them, but helped to make their death painless and comfortable - those are humbling and satisfying in their own way too. I found it brought me closer to God and to humanity, it put all of life into perspective. Few other careers can compare with that.
I think what I’m saying is don’t give up before you’ve really tried it. All students feel nervous of the responsibility- I know my own year were all shitting bricks as August the First approached, and our first day on the wards... but hey, we’re retired now, and don’t regret a minute of it!

HoppingPavlova I completely agree. From an ICU perspective many families demand that "everything be done" but have unrealistic expectations based on google and TV shows (the ER effect), and are suspicious and disbelieving of doctors who tell them it's not in the patient's best interests to "do everything". Combine that with an increasingly risk-averse hospital culture and unsupportive admin and you end up treating patients in ICU against your better judgement. It really changed in the 15 years I did ICU and from what my husband says is only getting worse.

That sounds a bit bleak! Probably reflects how fed up and burnt out I was. More from the political/bureaucratic stuff and the unrelenting hours than the patients themselves. There are still lots of lovely patients and families but the balance is definitely shifting.

I got a place to study medicine but became pregnant before starting. It's always been a dream of mine but I also see a lot of people saying it isn't worth it. I am a SAHM and value and appreciate the time I have with my kids so feel I probably won't consider medicine for a long long time.
I would say finish your degree though as your on your last year and then consider what to do after. I hope it all works out well for you

I am a HCP. I am deeply grateful that there are still bright people willing to consider medicine as, from where I'm sitting, it looks like an utterly thankless job.

The hierarchical structure, the arrogance of so many consultants, the hours, the mindless, ignorant obstructiveness of NHS management, the red top tabloid battering of the NHS (and by some MNetters...), Jeremy Hunt, years of pay-freezes, 'Agenda for Change', and increasingly aggressive and confrontational patients.

Nope. Glad I am within sight of leaving.

A friend of ours completed his training and then left on about week three to go and do something totally different (more creative), but he is a trustafarian and will inherit a very large sum, so it was a bit of an easier decision!

My brother trained as an accountant, then once qualified realised it wasn't for him, so retrained as a medic, and has just taken his first exams to be a consultant surgeon.....he almost left 2 years ago after YEARS of exams and when he looked at the alternative job markets, everything seemed to suggest that it's SO much better to have finished your qualification - in his case, to become a consultant before leaving the NHS as he felt more doors would be open.

He is very disillusioned by the whole system and feels terrified that in a few months time, once he's taken (and hopefully passed his Pt 2) that he will be in charge of a department and all of the failures of the system.....he's still not sure that he will stay in the NHS given the lack of funding and the fact that it doesn't look as though it's going to get much better. But he's in his early 40s already, has already sacrificed two long term relationships at the altar of training and so maybe is in a different headspace to you.

Best of luck with the decision - it's very, very hard, but do finish it first - it will open so many more opportunities to you.

I was in the same position as you OP about 18 months ago, I think the biggest alarm in my mind was having no control over my own life - when I will be left with responsibility, where in the country I'll live etc, .

So, I decided to take an interruption of studies and do a panic PhD. I've really enjoyed (on the whole) medical research so far, it has the the clinical side that I did enjoy about Medicine, but I can self direct to meet my goals which is so valuable. Also, 3 years without medical exams and getting a small income has been excellent.

I am planning on returning to finish my Medicine degree at the end of my PhD. And when it comes to qualifying will be seriously considering whether I want to practice, and if so I would like to pursue an AFP to keep on researching. (And also hopefully some control of where I'll end up)

Good luck OP, feel free to DM me :)

I qualified thinking I’d hate being in hospitals, expected my first house job in general surgery would be a complete nightmare and was fully intending to be a GP.
As it turned out, being in hospital as even a very junior doctor was nothing like being a student. I loved the surgical job and considered applying for a surgical training post, but ultimately went into paeds and specialised in paeds intensive care. It’s hard work and even as a consultant I’m frequently up all night but I bloody love it.

On the other hand a friend of mine decided she didn’t fancy the training conveyor belt any more, now does just enough locum work that she can afford to travel the world!

‘Real life’ medicine is very different from being a student. I didn’t really like being a med student but love being a doctor. There are also lots of specialities out there which don’t fit the conventional ‘hospital doctor’ stereotype. Microbiology, histopathology and radiology for example, or something like dermatology which is very clinic-based. Maybe something to consider when applying for FY1 and 2 jobs/taster weeks?
Our microbiology/virology/immunology docs are amazing - so much support when making decisions about our patients, come to the intensive care unit on ward rounds etc, not much out of hours work and love their jobs!

I think all those 18 year olds getting their A-level results today and being ecstatic/disappointed about their place at medical school need to read this thread. I didn't get the grades to do medicine and thank my lucky stars to have done dentistry. (I work in the special needs service and absolutely love it) I wouldn't advise any teenger to do dentistry now either!
Public Health is something that I'm seeing as more interesting these days. Want my children to be engineers (but they don't like maths)

A friend of mine specialised in Dermatology. I asked what was the appeal and she said "You don't have to work weekends".

Just out of interest, why are people saying to not do Dentistry?

raisins pm me if you wish!
Dentistry is at least as stressful as medicine (if we want get competitive about it )
I would not recommend a career in Dentistry to anyone these days.

I’m not a medic so have no practical advice, but I just wanted to share my story. I always wanted to be a lawyer but going through law school (while working full time and having children) I started practicing and HATED it. Anxious all the time, felt as though my life wasn’t own, just awful.

So I quit. I no longer practice and could not be happier. I actually work in a related field in a position that is considered “less than” a lawyer and some people have questioned why I have been happy to take a “step down.” Because I’m so much happier. I leave my challenging, responsible job at 4:30 and don’t think about it until the next day.

Would nursing or something similar be possible? I wonder if, like me, it is the level of responsibility and “the buck stops here” that is making you so unhappy?

Good luck to you.

I'm a psychiatrist. I absolutely love it. Not too much stress or pressure. Excellent work life balance.

Psychiatry would definitely be worth considering.

In fact anything where you don't have to be the med reg is worth considering!

Coroners have to be qualified Solicitors now (maybe can be barristers as well but def need proper legal qual)

Dentistry -for ~90% of dentists- is as stressful because: patients, NHS, unqualified leadership and so on... but also you either own a business and have to take out a massive loan to do so or you work for someone who has and will treat you so badly you can't believe it's legal.

Dentists in the UK are more likely to "be sued" (ie have a patient go to a lawyer about them) than any dentist anywhere else in the world including America. Imagine putting up with that shit whilst paying almost £1k for registration, many £thousands for insurance, and getting told by a "resource manager" that your time is worth £32/hour. Nah.

I left & work in strategic commissioning now. Much better. Much much less stressful. Far more impact on population health and far less interference.

@Mrsmorton
Would love to know how you got into that? PM me? We have chatted before back when you were clinical (I still am and had a hellish day!)

@sunshineroll I'm a GP with a portfolio career, happy to chat via PM if you'd like to. To get to GP is 3.5 years of hospital work, which I agree is hideous these days, but it's the quickest way to a CCT.

I would echo all those who say get your MBBS. Then decide if you can face F1/2 - if not then you're basically a graduate with a good degree and can head for any graduate jobs.

Hey! Once you've qualified there are a wealth of opportunities out there for you! I work for a big pharma company and surrounded by medics. You'll de welcomed with open arms and there's a lot of interesting and rewarding projects to get involved with. Good luck!

I didn’t find the move from medicine to nursing too difficult. The nursing degree was easy after doing medicine and I’m currently doing my nurse prescribing. I also completed a MSc so I’m doing well in the profession. However on leaving medical school I was on my knees health wise and have never recovered full health.

My parents were upset. My sister who works in theatre thought it was the best outcome as she didn’t want me to struggle like some of the drs she works with. My friends supported me. My med school friends abandoned me
I’m also paying off a 20k debt
However leaving was best thing I did.
I love this thread - I’ve felt like a pariah for years and very alone, a failure really. I realise now I’m one of many so thank you

Ps I work in psychiatry- it’s a nice specialism. Very team orientated. My salary with overtime last year was nearly 50k so not bad for a lot less stress. I finish at 5 and walk away

I'm an AHP & it's perhaps something to consider; if you have a degree already, sometimes a 1-2 year course for Post-Grad or MSc will have you working 9-5ish.

I don't work evenings-weekends ,or shifts - Mon-Fri only. No on-call. I can't kill anyone or do serious harm.

Progression is a bit limited - starting off at Band 5 for a few years but mostly stuck on Band 6 thereafter. I'm a 7 & earn around £43K. It can be stressful, but not "keep you awake at night" stress.