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Friends Demon Child

64 replies

CanWeJust · 08/12/2017 23:54

Id like to ask you all wwud to get across my friend bluntly she is raising a Demon child and she needs to do something about it!!! Sorry if it's so long!Please stick with me.

He's 10 and he's best friends with my DS - though both are in different schools so mostly see each other weekends / occasionally after school for a bit. There has never been an issue between them until recently (they have been friends since they were both 6 months old when me and his mum met) and since then they've been inseparable really due to me and my friend being so close.

Recently (since around February) her sons attitude seems to have been getting worse and worse. Hes always been 'cheeky' but its stepped up a notch to where he talks back - and I don't mean a bit of regular childish tantrums I mean he speaks to my DF like he's son stroppy 16 year old language wise. He gives me attitude if/when I babysit and literally shows no respect to anyone recently, though is incredibly polite and well mannered in school.

In fact, to others he's an absolute angel.

If my friends there and he begins talking to me like shit I'll tell him straight not to speak to me like that and he gets really shocked and confused - then upset. But I'm fighting a losing battle because she will then cheer him up by getting him a treat so I feel like she's undermining my own authority with him. It's come to the point now when I try tell him off for speaking like that to me he just smirks and goes "what are you going to do? That's right nothing." With absolute confidence.

With this building months in the making me and my DF a few weeks ago had a huge row, because when he says things like this to me and I tell her she just laughs saying things like "isn't he so cheeky?" "Did he really say that? He's going to be a right character when he's older isn't he?" She's genuinely proud.

She seems to see his attitude as funny as when he gives her it she always laughs /smiles. She even brags about it to others and they laugh with her because how she phrases it - without his nasty conviction - so it does seem quite funny to think of her seemingly well behaved little Angel coming out with such things.

I told her I wouldn't tolerate his attitude to me anymore and she promised to start clamping down on it and she has made some efforts - but his punishments are superficial. She will sternly tell him it's wrong then in the next breath offer him more treats promise him a toy etc. I'll admit he's calmed somewhat with his attitude towards me but I don't think it's acceptable still. A child his age shouldn't speak to anyone like he does.

He has begun to hit my DF as well, punching her in the face or kicking her as hard as he could. He first time I witnessed it I was absolutely shocked, more so because she just laughed and acted like it was no big deal when he then screamed at her and stormed upstairs.

The second time I piped up and told him he shouldn't hit her, to which he turned to me in mild confusion and apologised. Since then he's never done it in front of me but still hits her because she often phones me because he's wholloped her and she wants someone to speak to whilst he finishes raging in his room.

But she always has an excuse. He's had a hard day, he's hungry, he's tired etc etc. I've spent hours telling her she needs to nip it in the bud but she won't punish him. She never has and she tells me that he's just going through a phase. It will pass.

Then there's the things he says when he's giving attitude. He threatens to kill himself. Kill her. Kill their pet dog. Kill his Grandad. Hes fascinated with death and often openly speaks about when me and DF will die, Google about murder and likes to write stories about the world ending. Maybe just a phase this fascination but it worries me... I don't feel comfortable listening to a 10 year old chatter so happily about how he can't wait until we all die and can leave him to do what he likes.

When she does punish him for doing something really horrific he purposely hurts himself by slapping his face several times until she relents and tries to appease him. As I've mentioned when he gets away with things he gives this smirky looks and it's beginning to really rub me the wrong way.

Two weekends ago I was babysitting and he and DS were sat watching TV when my DS called their dog to come to him. Her son sighed loudly and snapped "just because your mum's too poor to buy you a dog doesn't mean you can call mine like you own him." I was in the hall but overheard so told him not to say things like that. He scoffed and stormed upstairs.

I decided to have a chat with him and asked if there was a reason he acted like he did and said nasty things. He just shrugged and said it was "because he could." I told him he was acting like a bully to me and his mum and that his comment to my DS was unkind. He looked me dead in the eye and said "then maybe you shouldn't be so mean and buy him nice toys, like mine."

I was completely baffled. As I've mentioned my friends spoils him rotten (games and consoles when it's not even his birthday/christmas) - he breaks something during his paddys and he gets a replacement immediately. My DS is by no means hard done by but I certainly don't lavish him. But explaining this to a child of 10 with an attitude problem was next to impossible.

Later that night I asked my son if he's ever said anything like that before (through my chat with DF's son it became apparent he considers me 'poor') and my son admitted when they were alone playing he often said nasty things, but my DS knew there was no point telling my DF because the one time he did she just laughed it off.

I brought it up with her and she just gave me a huge speel about how her DS was in a bad mood that night, how when my DS came to her it was a typical child's argument and my DS is blowing things out of proportion, that what her son said was obviously him making things up in his moodiness.

I told my DS if he says nasty things again to tell me immediately.

Last Tuesday I was tucking in DS when he said he had something to tell me and made me promise I wouldn't get mad. He confided that her DS liked to squeeze him - his arms, legs etc when he says nasty things and that it had happened that day when they were playing. He said her DS snapped because my DS wasn't playing Lego 'right' and he grabbed him, squeezed and told him he was "stupid and no wonder your mum doesn't love you." And something in regards to us being poor again.

There was no bruises but my DS said hes sometimes a bit red after, but that friends DS always checks him over and declares 'that didn't hurt, did it?' And will start a game again like nothing happened.

I asked why he'd never told me before about it and he said DF's son had warned him that if he told nothing would happen because his mum let's him do what he likes. And I realised how believable it would be to my DS because she reallydoesand DS has witnessed my DF's child get away with horrendous behaviour without consequence.

I feel guilty that my DS has been subjected to this and have been avoiding her because I know I'm frustrated over the whole situation and would just snap, saying something I'd regret. I know it's my fault for allowing DS to witness this and for not removing him from it sooner, she is my closest DF and when there's not issues with her DS we are really close and have so much in common.

I'm at a loss as what to do here because I'm clearly giving advise to death ears, but at the same time I'm watching her raise an absolute demon and I want no part of it for my DS and myself. Other friends have told me I need to say something, since me and her are so close. I've calmed down a lot now and I know I need to say something... I just don't know what. I feel like I've said everything before and she doesn't listen, but I can't let my DS remain in that situation.

So... Tips on how to tell DF she's raising a demon child and that I don't want my DS around hers until she does something about it please??

((So may be relevant to know; she's a single mum and her DS has never met his dad so no male authority. He's been tested for ADHD and Autism and though he may have very 'mild' autism it's not enough to need special classes / meetings etc because he functions perfectly fine in school / outside at his clubs / fine with his school friends and is well thought of as a lovely little boy. His horrific behaviour is reserved mostly with her. When he gives attitude to me is generally after a strop over something as mild as she'd forgot to buy X treat or he wants X toy and he's lashing out. His behaviour towards my son however... I'm not sure where that stems from!!!))

OP posts:
CanWeJust · 09/12/2017 12:05

Wow - I didn't expect to get this many responses. Thank you to all those who commented, though some were somewhat harsh I think I appreciate them more because I know I needed a healthy dose of reality.

I have arranged to meet her today at a local cafe to have a catch up / chat without DC and she has agreed. I have been writing a list of things I say and examples to back them up as to reasons why I can't have my DS around hers anymore.

I began being quite mean and had to reevaluate what I would say because in the end of it all I do value her friendship and on reflection I feel that maybe how I've gone about offering my support was too pushy and judgemental.

I don't see how they are without me there and there's obviously something going on for his behaviour to do a 180 in the space of a year. For those who suggested she may be overwhelmed I feel a bit of shame that she may be feeling this way and all I've been doing is judging her / being opinionated when I only see him briefly a few days a week.

How he is with my DS however is within my control and now that I've been clued in by DS on how it is I won't let it continue. I've already had a talk with him about how that behavior between friends isn't normal and he should never let anyone treat him like that. He was confused and upset understandably because he has been best friends with her DS for so long, but also knew the treatment wasn't right.

I know it will take him a while because even after our talk he asked when he can see friends DS again for a play.

He has friends from school and I know his friendships with them are healthy. I'd rather take him away from her DS and I'm hoping he will see how much better he is for it.

I'll let you know when I meet her how it goes but I can't see her taking this well because she's very stubborn and genuinely believes her sons behaviour is excusable. I don't expect us to be friends after today... But I intend to assure her I am there for her and really, I'm genuinely worried.

OP posts:
JonSnowsWife · 09/12/2017 12:18

I have been writing a list of things I say and examples to back them up as to reasons why I can't have my DS around hers anymore.

I fear if you do that OP she'll immediately be on the defensive and it will turn into a not very nice afternoon. She's not going to listen in the same sense DSs friends Mum didn't. Like I said, friend was more than happy to bring up how he felt hard done by but I wasn't allowed to mention that what her DS did wasn't fucking funny, and if he'd have done that at secondary school they'd be serious consequences. The last time we met she was complaining that her DS was starting to piss people off at school and they had begun keeping their distance to feel left out at school. It simply doesn't register with them.

Maybe just have a nice chat and a cuppa with her today and say oh with Christmas coming up I'm going to struggle with out usual commitments so we're going to have to hike them off for a while. Then just have a nice chat and a cuppa with just her just as two mates. Show that not everything always has to he about her DS if that makes sense?

JonSnowsWife · 09/12/2017 12:21

But I intend to assure her I am there for her and really, I'm genuinely worried.

I really wouldn't bother. Genuinely worried about what? She's clearly not. Your friend / Her DS are not your problem.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

becotide · 09/12/2017 12:42

This will end your friendship. Prepare yourself for this. x

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 09/12/2017 12:52

I wonder if she has tried to discipline him but he's had such a massive, terrifying meltdown about it that she's scared to do it anymore, so she's appeasing him in the desperate hope it won't happen.

I don't think anybody laughs off somebody punching them in the head unless they are actually really scared.

Professionally I've seen a lot of situations where mum (usually, sometimes dad too) is basically in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship where the abusive partner is their child. It can happen where the profile of the child's needs lead them to be incredibly controlling over other people- which the behaviours you have described suggest. I wonder if that is the case here and friend is putting a blasé front on it because she's actually bloody terrified and ashamed- like abused women often feel.

I would make sure your DS doesn't see the boy for now, except maybe as PP suggests, the occasional trip to McDonalds. At the same time maybe try to get under the skin of what is happening and signpost DF to help.

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 09/12/2017 13:01

This is not mild autism, this is autism with bells on and needs firm handling.

My so. Is nearly 15 and a,so autistic. He struggles massively with his temper and it's usually over situations rather than about wants.

At the age of around 9/10 he began to raise his fists towards me....and believe me I absolutely and resolutely stamped on it....every single time. Hitting and kicking is absolutely not acceptable...ever. Autism or not.

Upshot is at 15 he never does it and has found better and more socially acceptable ways of expressing his temper.

My advice would be to see if there are parenting courses or special needs centres in your area and point her towards them. She needs help...both with parenting her son and tackling this.

3luckystars · 09/12/2017 13:48

Could you just try keeping your mouth shut and keeping away from her? If you want to stay friends I would recommend doing this instead of producing a list of things that she could improve on by listening to you.

There is no chance, none that she is going to thank you for saying anything to her. I’m surprised she is still friendly after all the things you have said to her already. You are her friend, not an advisor. She does not want any help with her child, she is ignoring you and everybody else. This is her way of dealing with it.

Just keep your distance, your mouth shut, your children apart.

Best wishes.

DoItAgainBob · 09/12/2017 13:59

I agree with Lucky if you want to stay friends then just create distance rather than hostility.

Dairymilkmuncher · 09/12/2017 14:19

What a horrible situation to be in but you've had some great advice here.

Your son is number one and keeping him safe will always be your priority, I know you'll feel guilty not being 100% supportive of your friend in her time of need but doesn't sound like she wants your support on this issue.

I do have a special needs son myself and I may have your friends problems in a few years time but I would personally rather lose a friend for me and my son than have ANY child be in an abusive relationship and if your friend doesn't feel the same as me then she's not really a friend to you or your son.

JonSnowsWife · 09/12/2017 16:24

How did your meet go this afternoon @canwejust?

CheeseyToast · 09/12/2017 17:40

Oh dear, I hope the cafe chat went OK but I somehow doubt she's going to appreciate your "input".

I also think it was unnecessary to go into such detail with your son. Tbh I think you talk too much! Try to process more in your head and keep your interactions appropriate.

With your son all that's needed is a gentle talk/apology that he's been getting hurt and an assurance that it's not acceptable, then YOU take full responsibility by not allowing contact any more. There's no need to make a big issue out of it, just start introducing alternative outings and friends. Children move on pretty quickly!

Same with your friend. Not appropriate to go into great deal and will inevitably cause enormous hurt. Just say you noticed the boys aren't getting on so well so time for a break.

If you put yourself in her shoes would you want a "friend" to nitpick every aspect of your parenting and comb through your son's deficiencies? This is the sort of thing my mother died and she died very much alone.

Rainbowmother · 21/12/2017 22:28

Get out. Cut them off and explain to your son why you had to do it to protect him. Forcing your boy to carry on being the punchbag because you like his mum wouldnt be ok. She was a friend for a time but now it's over. Things have changed. You don't want either of them in your life or around your child. Block them in every way!

CanWeJust · 29/12/2017 17:21

Just an update. We had a chat and there was a lot of tears, mainly because I acknowledged how interfering I have been, how I know I can be a bit much with my opinions and also explained how upset I was with what my son told me and how guilty I felt.

She explained that she appreciated my advice but agreed I gave it at bad times (mainly in the moment when she was often flustered and already embarrassed). She was horrified by hearing the extent of what her son has done and agreed that it was completely out of order.

We agreed mutually that they needed time apart, and said she would have a talk with her son about appropriate ways to speak to people. She also confided that she will go to the doctors and tell them the full extent of her sons behaviour because she broke down and admitted she couldn't cope, but had been putting on an act to give the impression she could.

Obviously the conversation wasn't said exactly like this, but it's been a few days and it was very emotional, so I can't fully remember the wording. But these were the general points covered and although we still text/ phone/ meet up when the kids are at their separate clubs, we have kept them apart and she is now working with the school SENCO and her doctor on how to help her DS.

In regards to my DS, he was very upset initially to be away from her DS but he has other friends and he agrees himself he needed to be away and is generally happy in himself, though obviously misses his best friend.

OP posts:
DeloresJaneUmbridge · 29/12/2017 18:08

Thank you for that update, I am so glad her son is now getting input from the SENCO. Dealing with autism can be very hard and kids on the spectrum (especially younger children) can be very unpredictable at times.

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