Transexuals in women's sport

[Clowdy]

We have started a netball group. Very casual and just for fun. All ages from 13 to 66 and all shapes, sizes and abilities. Just for fun, once a week. No leagues or teams, literally just a game with other women who want to keep a bit fitter and have fun. We aren't great but we have a laugh. There have been a fair few minor injuries, particularly because we are skilled and we get carried away. One of the ladies has asked if her two transsexual friends can join us. One post op, one rpe op. They are both at least 5'10'' and of heavy builds. A few people are worries about the physical safety of them playing. - bearing in mind that we have two or 3 quite tiny women playing.
Personally, I wouldn't like dh for example to play because physically I think he is mismatched to our group and it could be dangerous. However, these women are essentially women and in a perfect world they would be welcomed with open arms but I'm not sure people who are built like grown men should play such a physical sport alongside us. I am prepared to be told I'm wrong and it is purely the physical aspect that worries me - there is a reason men's and women's sports are separate. How would you approach this with the other women who play and what are your thoughts?

I think this is one of those "put your money where your mouth is" situations... no good being an all-inclusive liberal if when it comes to it you'd happily exclude a marginalised group just because you're worried that other people won't like it. Given the huge amount of discrimination and abuse transsexual people are subjected to, I'd imagine that being excluded even from an "all shapes and sizes" just for fun netball group would be the icing on the cake

Would you exclude a man who was 5'6" and 8st? Yes, because it's a women's group.

Mixed netball is ace but it is definitely different from all-women.

I think in the circumstances (low level, fun, non-competitive) you should definitely feel comfortable including these women. I think the higher the level, the more complications would arise.

i thought this would be about sport at a higher level and was all 'ooh i dont know'

at this level, why not? i am not convinced by the size/weight thing as there are pretty hefty women around so unless you have a general weight thing (like say boxing) it doesnt seem relevant

if you play other teams in a league tho, you need to refer to the netball assoc rules

Mymother, I can't disagree with you and I'm pretty disappointed in myself to be honest as I would usually be the one to speak out but on this occasion I can't summon up the will to do it. If I'm honest I don't think I want the hassle of the fall out which I know puts me in the wron and I do agree with all of you. Guess On this occasion, I don't have the courage of my convictions

Netball England doesn't help - I assumed they'd have a gender/sexuality statement somewhere in their equality pages but I can't find it.

You've pretty much fallen at the first hurdle if you can't even bring yourself to let the women try it out. You've judged them without even seeing how it goes: you are creating problems which may be a complete non-issue.

Unless you would exclude those who were born female for similar height/weight issues, you are discriminating for other reasons - only you can say what those other reasons are, but they're clearly not to do with the issues you claim to be concerned about.

burberry

You are disgusting. I have reported your post.

Burberry, totally unnecessary...

It would take no effort at all to suggest a trial period.

Netball England refers you to the INFA rules for transsexuals, which I can't find in full online.

From the partial versions I've found, it seems there is a ban on transsexuals competing in either men's or women's official competitions, but I doubt that would apply to a fun club.

I'd let them try out, as you would for any new joiner. Whether they change the 'tone' of the club is surely down to individual personality, not height or weight or genitals.

Horry I had a look and it says this:
. Transgender Athletes
England Netball considers that netball is a gender affected sport under the Equality Act 2010 and refers any transgender athletes to the IFNA policy relating to participation by transgender persons.
But I can't find the actual policy relating to this. I think if I'm reading it correctly that it doesn't support transgender women in netball but as people have pointed out, it's just for fun and we don't play in a league or anything.
I suppose a trial period could be suggested but agin if it doesn't work out, I wouldn't like to be the one to have to say so. Don't know, I may just tell them the time and place and leave it up to them if they want to turn up and just let people speak for themselves.

Crossed post scaelova

Scaevola even...

Yes let them join. They are women. End of story.

You do seem disappointed in yourself so I am sorry to be harsh but not standing up for your convictions is worse than not having any at all.

Let them play.

Crocodile, sadly I can only agree with you.

Burberry it might interest you to know that there's a lot more to a sex change than surgery and hormones. Years of feeling trapped in the wrong body, horrendous mental illness as a result. Where your sex organs don't match your gender identity.

You could have a quick Google to investigate the rates of suicide amongst those trapped in the wrong body.

Burberry.. you think you are in the clear as long as you are not rude to 1 person?? Get real. You are rude (and wrong) about 1 group of people, get it now?

Anyway.
My ex's father was transgender. His father was a woman and she pleyed football. Just for fun, just like you. It was very very hurtful to hear other women trying to exclude her as she was 'a man' .. She wasn't, also physically she was no longer a man. Muscles change, strength changes, emotions change, attitude changes. Maybe you don't fully realise how profound it all is?
I hope you manage to work it out because it does seem like you 'need' to let them join and give it a go.

played!

I think you should let them play OP. It might be worth contacting the INFA for their missing guidelines.

Burberry, luckily the world doesn't operate on a 'what I think' basis. Legally, transwomen are women, whatever your opinion of them.