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Not AIBU so much as WWYD - illegal download

130 replies

randommoment · 21/01/2012 23:24

A good friend has just mentioned in passing on the phone she's watched War Horse tonight at home, and how brilliant it was. But War Horse is still only legally available to watch in cinemas. I said 'but that's only just out in the cinema - we went to watch it last week as birthday treat' she replied 'oh, download off the Net of course'. AIBU to feel that she's let the side down - I truly thought she was a thoughtful person who realises that illegal downloads mean that the production people etc who slaved away to make the films/music/tv we love don't get paid properly for their effort. What would you do?

OP posts:
GirlWithPointyShoes · 22/01/2012 00:33

If any of you are truly interested in this and the SOPA stuff that's going on recently or the innocent people slaving away in Hollywood right now then this may be an interesting read for you guys.

Over a century ago Thomas Edison got the patent for a device which would "do for the eye what the phonograph does for the ear". He called it the Kinetoscope. He was not only amongst the first to record video, he was also the first person to own the copyright to a motion picture.

Because of Edisons patents for the motion pictures it was close to financially impossible to create motion pictures in the North american east coast. The movie studios therefor relocated to California, and founded what we today call Hollywood. The reason was mostly because there was no patent. There was also no copyright to speak of, so the studios could copy old stories and make movies out of them - like Fantasia, one of Disneys biggest hits ever.

So, the whole basis of this industry, that today is screaming about losing control over immaterial rights, is that they circumvented immaterial rights. They copied (or put in their terminology: "stole") other peoples creative works, without paying for it. They did it in order to make a huge profit. Today, they're all successful and most of the studios are on the Fortune 500 list of the richest companies in the world. Congratulations - it's all based on being able to re-use other peoples creative works. And today they hold the rights to what other people create. If you want to get something released, you have to abide to their rules. The ones they created after circumventing other peoples rules.

The reason they are always complainting about "pirates" today is simple. We've done what they did. We circumvented the rules they created and created our own. We crushed their monopoly by giving people something more efficient. We allow people to have direct communication between eachother, circumventing the profitable middle man, that in some cases take over 107% of the profits (yes, you pay to work for them). It's all based on the fact that we're competition. We've proven that their existance in their current form is no longer needed. We're just better than they are.

^And the funny part is that our rules are very similar to the founding ideas of the USA. We fight for freedom of speech. We see all people as equal. We believe that the public, not the elite, should rule the nation. We believe that laws should be created to serve the public, not the rich corporations.
The Pirate Bay is truly an international community. The team is spread all over the globe - but we've stayed out of the USA. We have Swedish roots and a swedish friend said this: The word SOPA means "trash" in Swedish. The word PIPA means "a pipe" in Swedish.^

This is of course not a coincidence. They want to make the internet inte a one way pipe, with them at the top, shoving trash through the pipe down to the rest of us obedient consumers. The public opinion on this matter is clear. Ask anyone on the street and you'll learn that noone wants to be fed with trash. Why the US government want the american people to be fed with trash is beyond our imagination but we hope that you will stop them, before we all drown.

SOPA can't do anything to stop TPB. Worst case we'll change top level domain from our current .org to one of the hundreds of other names that we already also use. In countries where TPB is blocked, China and Saudi Arabia springs to mind, they block hundreds of our domain names. And did it work? Not really. To fix the "problem of piracy" one should go to the source of the problem. The entertainment industry say they're creating "culture" but what they really do is stuff like selling overpriced plushy dolls and making 11 year old girls become anorexic. Either from working in the factories that creates the dolls for basically no salary or by watching movies and tv shows that make them think that they're fat.

In the great Sid Meiers computer game Civilization you can build Wonders of the world. One of the most powerful ones is Hollywood. With that you control all culture and media in the world. Rupert Murdoch was happy with MySpace and had no problems with their own piracy until it failed. Now he's complainting that Google is the biggest source of piracy in the world - because he's jealous. He wants to retain his mind control over people and clearly you'd get a more honest view of things on Wikipedia and Google than on Fox News.

Some facts (years, dates) are probably wrong in this press release. The reason is that we can't access this information when Wikipedia is blacked out. Because of pressure from our failing competitors. We're sorry for that.
THE PIRATE BAY, (K)2012

randommoment · 22/01/2012 00:33

Noble, what's DRM? Have demolished 2 large glasses of PG so short-term memory is going... Agree re crappy ads and trailers.
Rarely get films on DVD, we either watch at cinema for the Cinema Surround Sound etc. Experience, see above, or wait til it gets to satellite television. We are probably the reason why HMV is about to go tits up. Usually record new movies on Sky on the Sky+box - True Grit this week - and fast forward through the ads and the guff.
Of course, some of my old college friends have no doubt slaved away on those trailers and adverts... feeling guilt trip coming on now.

OP posts:
randommoment · 22/01/2012 00:35

Woohoo - I've never started an AIBU before, I thought it might get interesting and so it has!

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 22/01/2012 00:40

DRM is digital rights management or copy protection. You've bought the DVD legally, but they want to make sure that you're not going to rip it and distribute it to all your mates so they program the DVD so it won't work in a computer DVD drive, that sort of thing.

An argument against it is that it inconveniences legitimate customers who have paid for the bloody thing and want to just be able to watch it on their train journey. Or make a back-up copy in case their kid scratches their beloved favourite film (I'm looking at you, DS).

AgentZigzag · 22/01/2012 00:46

I wish you'd stop saying slaved away OP.

Coming over all creative or doing a bit of techy stuff to make a film is hardly hard work is it?

I mean in the relative scheme of things.

randommoment · 22/01/2012 00:48

Cheers Noble. Had heard about this problem, didn't know what the acronym was.
All seems rather silly TBH. There must be a way of ensuring that everyone gets a fair deal for their work, but can't think how at this time of night.

OP posts:
randommoment · 22/01/2012 00:55

Agent Zigzag, when you've spent three weeks making a prop that James Bond exploded in 1.5 seconds of screen time and still only got bog standard carpenter's wages for, and then waited months until the next contract came along, while fending off the mortgage company, then you can moan. The trouble with the creative industry is when things are good, they are very very good. One of us is 'in' on Downton Abbey - champagne all round and fair play to him. But when they are bad, they are horrid.

OP posts:
WTAF · 22/01/2012 01:05

I'd judge her for her appalling taste in films, even my parents said Warhorse is shit. But I'd not judge her for the downloading.

WorraLiberty · 22/01/2012 01:06

Oh well they can always work in a warehouse/supermarket or any other job that'll help them pay their mortgage.

Oh I know, they could always sell bottled water and bags of sweets at the cinema....

GirlWithPointyShoes · 22/01/2012 01:12

You are mad at the wrong people random.

AgentZigzag · 22/01/2012 01:14

My heart's not bleeding for them random Grin

I presume they do it because they love the job if it doesn't do basic things like paying a regular wage, most people have to do jobs they can't stand day in day out because they'd rather have the stability for their families.

They're choosing to have making a james bond prop on their cv, which would be cool I have to admit.

ComposHat · 22/01/2012 01:17

So OP you've never burnt a CD/taped an album off a mate in your youth?

maypole1 · 22/01/2012 01:20

Nothing tut and be a judge pants that's it

RozziB · 22/01/2012 01:26

Ok I was obviously wrong in saying that they would start going after the people who download illegally as yellowraincoat pointed out the numbers downloading illegally are massive but I still wouldn't do it or let my dc do it :)

randommoment · 22/01/2012 01:35

Thanks for all the replies everyone, it's been really interesting, and loads of good points made. But it's been bed-time for rather a long time now, and the PG has run out as I had the sense to not bring the bottle up to the PC with me... so good night.

OP posts:
troisgarcons · 22/01/2012 03:37

Kosovan Kev is the last in the food chain

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3881587.stm

Film companies in the UK have joined forces for the first time to convince movie fans that buying pirate DVDs funds terrorism and drug dealing.

In London and surrounding counties, Mr Leinster said, the culprits were more likely to be Chinese gangs who forced illegal immigrants to sell DVDs on the streets.

"By purchasing pirated DVDs, many consumers are unwittingly helping to fund hardcore criminals with links to people trafficking, drugs, guns and money laundering," he said.

mathanxiety · 22/01/2012 04:11

Illegal downloading/info sharing is the wave of the future. There will be no stopping it, because people are endlessly creative. I am sure Hollywood will adapt.

mathanxiety · 22/01/2012 04:15

And most people who have a mortgage adapt and find some better way to pay it monthly than waiting around for set building work on carpenters' wages. Either that or they join a union and negotiate better basic pay for their carpentering. Since when has anyone been owed a living by society in general? Trying to sell a product that is available for free is a ridiculous business plan, unless you are trying to sell bottled water, in which case it is brilliant.

SaraBellumHertz · 22/01/2012 04:36

In my mind there is a huge difference between illegal downloads and hard copy pirated DVDs.

As far as I am aware the former "only" hurts those in the industry and tbh if movie execs have to pay a woman whose only talent is an ability to starve herself whilst maintaining a rictus like smile then I cannot, I'm afraid get outraged.

On the other hand certainly in the past pirate DVDs have been a source of huge income for those involved in organised crime, the profits fund trafficking, drugs and other "industries" which I wouldn't want anything to do with. Still, not buying dodgy DVD's is a choice I make. I might tell someone why I disapprove but I would leave it at that.

mathanxiety · 22/01/2012 04:39

I don't see much complaining about internet porn from the industry.

FrothyDragon · 22/01/2012 04:40

Damnit, I wish I'd kept my notes on the profit (or lack thereof) that cinemas make on each film. The majority of profit comes from the sale of popcorn, drinks and sweets, hence the mark up. If they were going to break even on ticket sales, I think, IIRC, there would be a price mark up of about 150% on tickets.

Now, if you bare in mind that all the media in America is owned by six different companies, any blames wrt wages fall on those companies (GE, Disney, Newcorp, Viacom, TimeWarner and CBS) They reap their money back through box office sales, DVD releases, advertising deals (eg, product placement... If you see an Apple product in a film, it's not usually coincidence...) and merchandising.

Now take into consideration the wages of the highest paid actors and directors in the field. Yes, they're the ones that sell the film, but the film production market is a marxist one. The chances are that the more work you do, the less you earn.

SaraBellumHertz · 22/01/2012 04:40

Ah now read second page and see trois got there first.

I am always surprised how few people seem to know or care where the money from the hard copy DVDs goes.

FrothyDragon · 22/01/2012 04:41

Math, care to elaborate?

FrothyDragon · 22/01/2012 04:45

Thanks for the link, troisgarcons.

And Sara, that's the way I feel about it, too. Once someone starts selling/buying the hard copy DVDs, I find it more problematic.

Oh, and OP, I wouldn't do anything.

mathanxiety · 22/01/2012 04:55

I suppose what I was thinking was that there seems to be an awful lot of free online porn that was professionally produced or at least not all home made, and obviously there had to be people working on the technical side of all that. Yet there it is, free for the asking online, and the porn industry is not trying to bribe congressmen, afaik, to put a halt to illegal sharing, and again afaik, never has. What does the porn industry know about free product online that Hollywood doesn't? Porn was the driving force behind a huge amount of televideo advances over the last two decades, without a peep from the mainstream movie industry or from porn manufacturers, and now that same technology is biting the movie industry in the bum -- karma perhaps.

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