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Original poster

appeal against parking ticket

30 replies

crystalglasses · 16/02/2011 12:31

I was given a street parking ticket a month ago, when I attended my GP for an emergency appointment. My council states that parkers can either pay using the meter, or find another meter if the one closest isn't working, or phone a central call centre and pay using a debit or credit card.
I was parked in a public parking space but the meters were out of order on the street where I was parked and so were the meters in the next street and in the car park nearby.

I couldn't use my mobile phone because it needed charging.
I appealed against the fine giving these reasons plus the fact that the ticket stated that the parking attendent had observed the car of one minute - which I said was unreasonable.
I have now received a letter saying my appeal hasn't been upheld but I can take it further (ie to court)if I want to
What would you do?
I'm inclined to go to court.

OP posts:

Blu · 16/02/2011 12:36

If you can afford to take the risk of having to pay the full, rather than reduced, fine if you lose, and are of a gambling nature, I would take it to court. The theory being that it isn't actually in their economic interests to send a rep or legal people from the agency which handles thier parking to court, so they don't turn up, so you win. But be prepared with lots of evidence - photo of the non-working meter if you have it, exact name locations of the othe non-working meters you tried, etc.

Technically they are right - you are suposed to scour the land far and wide for a working meter or pay by other means, or not park there. So you could lose.

scurryfunge · 16/02/2011 12:40

I think you could possibly lose.

Can you prove it was a medical emergency?

Charging your phone is down to you and you could have used someone else's maybe or the surgery phone.

As Blu says, you have to hope the council can't be bothered to chase this up.

BettyDouglas · 16/02/2011 12:42

I know someone who went to court in almost exactly the same set of circumstances and won.

I don't know all the details but he was attending a Dr appointment, parked in the parking bay but machine wasn't working. The nearest one also not working.
I think it helped his case that the council were trying to say he should have walked for miles until he found a working one sort of thing.

The judge said whilst the council were technically correct the law must take into account reasonablness (or something like that) He said it was reasonable for the man to have checked two meters then gone in so as not to miss his appointment.

It also helped that the council didn't dispute that both those meters were broken.

HTH a little. Decision must be yours though.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Driving & parking Legal issues

Original poster

crystalglasses · 16/02/2011 12:55

What about the one minute observation? The response to the appeal was that there is nothing in the Act that states there should be an observation period - so why is it on the ticket? I have checked procedures in neighbouring boroughs and they all have state that they give a minimum of 5-10 minutes for you to find a working meter, buy a ticket and return to the car.

I'm not a particularly gambling person. If I pay up now it will be £60 but it will increase to the full rate of £120 if I lose the appeal. I can't afford £120 so maybe I should just pay up. However I know that there is a big campaign over increased parking charges and the introduction of the phone payments, which came in at Christmas. In fact I didn't know that it was obligatory to use a phone as in the past I've put a note on my windscreen to say the meter was out of order, as have other people in this borough .

OP posts:

Blu · 16/02/2011 13:58

What borough is it? Someone may be able to advise on their track record.

I think a challenge to the one minute thing could have been made had you actually got a ticket from somewhere and therefore been able to prove that you had been awy getting it while the ticket was being issued.

I think they turn down appeals hoping that people will be put off going to court by the threat of the £120. Which of course, they are.

whomovedmychocolate · 16/02/2011 14:17

Actually they tend not to increase the charge to full price if you are in the process of appealing - so for example, if you appeal within their 14 day limit, they will then give you another 14 days to pay at the lower limit and similarly if it goes to court.

I personally would go to court and argue that it was unreasonable to expect you to scour the streets for a working meter. It's unusual actually for them to enforce a ticket in these circumstances.

May I suggest you head over to www.moneysavingexpert.com and ask advice there - I got off my ticket using their advice.

Original poster

crystalglasses · 16/02/2011 15:53

Thanks whomovedmychocolate. I think I'll do that, although the letter they sent me said that not having a mobile is not grounds for appeal as most people have them these days. I genuinely didn't realise it was obligatory to use one if you couldn't find a working ticket machine - hence why I didn't worry that mine had run out of charge.

OP posts:

Blu · 16/02/2011 17:14

They offer paying via mobile as an alternative means of payment - their argument would be that if you can't walk miles, for hours, looking for a working meter, and havebn't got a mobile than you just shouldn't use the space. Hardly reasonable by anyone's standards.
I think it would be reasonable to argue to a court that they should not penalise people by failing to ensure working meters, that it is unreasonable for people attending a GPs surgery to be able to walk either miles(ill), or for ages (will miss appt), and that it is an equalities issue to assume that people can always pay by mobile if their damn meters are not working. M'Lud.

C0FFEE · 17/02/2011 22:15

did you challenge the ticket ie, wrote a letter or email within a few days of getting the ticket giving your reasons as to why you feel you should not be liable for the ticket?

Original poster

crystalglasses · 17/02/2011 23:04

Coffee -yes and the response was as I outlined in my previous posts. I think the borough I live in has a reputation for being the the most dragonian in relation to parking tickets and parking charges in general and don't hesitte to go to court. I did get off paying once many years ago when my ticket fell off the dashboard onto the seat and was supposedly not visible. My challenge, which was upheld was that the ticket wasn't fit for purpose because it didn't have a sticky back so couldn't be fixed to the windscreen and would fly away when the car dorr closed.

OP posts:

blankstare · 17/02/2011 23:08

Have you appealed to the parking adjudicator?

Original poster

crystalglasses · 17/02/2011 23:15

Yes, if you mean the local authority parking orgnaisation. I did that within 14 days of receiving the ticket. I received their decision a few days ago in which they said that my apeal wasn't upheld and that I could either pay £60 within the next 14 days or go to court.

OP posts:

blankstare · 17/02/2011 23:29

No, you should be able to take it to the parking adjudicator.

Google PTAS. If they say no it goes to court.

LittlePushka · 17/02/2011 23:29

What a monumental waste of court and council time that would be. You parked without paying...it is a strict liability offence - everyone who parks without paying has an excuse valid to them.

You knew the deal before you parked there. (And previous appeal on ticket not fit for purpose...FGS,... are you a vexatious litigant?!)

Pay fine don't whine!

blankstare · 17/02/2011 23:32

here

blankstare · 17/02/2011 23:36

So what was she supposed to do? Miss her appointment because the council don't maintain their machines properly?

If their machines don't work, they lose revenue, not collect ten times the amount by issuing penalties.

LittlePushka · 17/02/2011 23:38

Parking tickets are always someone elses fault rather than the driver it seems....[hmmm]

Original poster

crystalglasses · 17/02/2011 23:46

Littlepushka - why are you being so offensive? Of course I'm not a veatious litigant. I didn't go to court on the previous occasion (10-15 years ago) and I had bought a ticket which couldn't be fixed to the windscreen. My complaint was upheld by the local authority.

Are you a parking attendant by any chance?

On this current occasion i already explained that the ticket machines weren't working in the street where I was parked, in the street adjacent (the main high road) and in the town car park. The pay by mobile phone system only came in in December and I didn't realise it was compulsory to use this method if the ticket machines weren't working as it wasn't widely publicised. I had had no means to do it and it has always been normal practice in this borough to put a note on the dashboard when the meter isn't working.

OP posts:

LittlePushka · 18/02/2011 00:22

Not being offensive - you asked what I would do - I would not waste court or council time and pay the fine for not buying time I had taken in somebody elses carpark.

I did read the thread,...I realise the machine was not working. But again you seem to be suggesting that the fault lies with the local authority for not ensuring everbody new becasue their advertising campaign was non existant.

My point is simply that parking tickets (like speeding tickets also) never seem to illicit any responsibility in folk for their action.

In a time when local government are having to slash their budgets in departments which will seriously affect peoples lives, I despair why you would force the council to court over £60 for your error, however valid your reasons. I just think it is a poor reaction.

Not a parking attendant BTW !

C0FFEE · 18/02/2011 09:04

I recently won an appeal because the authority did not respond to a challenge. I stopped on double yellows as I was loading a heavy item.

So you have challenged the ticket.

Appealed to the local authority

Been to the ticket adjudicator

Now your going to court?

Although that was the procedure in my case and I guess could be different in your area.

I won at to adjudicator stage not because I was loading a heavy item (I did not even mention this) but because the local authority did not respond to a challenge. You will need proof of posting.

C0FFEE · 18/02/2011 09:14

LittlePushka It is appalling that the authority can not keep their ticket machines in working order yet fine people who need to park.

Not all authorities are facing huge cuts.

Bumperlicious · 18/02/2011 09:22

I had a fine waived as I was trying to park at the hospital. I had thought the tickets were £2.50 but they were £2.90 and I didn't have enough money on me. I wrote them and said along the lines of yes I was wrong not to get a ticket but I hadn't intended not to, I just didn't realise it was what I thought was an extotionate price of £2.90 and I couldn't believe what it was costing me to attend all my antenatal visits (3 scans, one emergency heart beat check, 3 physio appointments, over £20!). They were very good and let me off as a gesture of goodwill.

dilbertina · 18/02/2011 09:28

I used to park in a council carpark that had broken machines the vast majority of the time. I used to park and when I got into work would email a message to council parking dept. reporting machines broken, giving my registration number and assuring them of my desperate desire to pay. I would ask them to call me so I could pay by card or arrange to meet a warden and give cash etc...

Funnily enough they never called to arrange payment. I did get parking tickets a few times but just appealed, giving details of my email, they always decided "on this occasion" to waive the charge.

Must have sent that email to them hundreds of times...!

Original poster

crystalglasses · 18/02/2011 10:36

No Coffee I haven't been to the adjudicator yet. I'll do that today.

OP posts:

LittlePushka · 19/02/2011 20:39

Coffee, - it is hardly appalling: it is massively inconvenient for sure. But appalling...nah:

Appalling is a council having to make a choice between spending money on parking services and acute geriatric home care.

Appalling is getting riled by a parking ticket but not getting riled by local authorities under strain.

Appalling is abuse of court process without thinking of the bigger picture as to what ripple effect that has.

Not all local authorities are facing cuts? Central Government money to local authorites has been cut across the board over the next three years. Every local authority will feel the effect of that...

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