I’m a Seventh-Day Adventist (Christian) - AMA!

[SDAchurchAMA]

Have you heard of the SDA church before, or are you unaware of its existence? Do you have any questions about what we believe in, or anything random you want to ask me?

Long-term Mumsnetter - posting this on a new account. I’m a woman in my late 20s looking for a few breaks from cleaning my house this afternoon as I get ready for some guests tomorrow. Ask away!

Well they sold it again in the end, so it worked out for my colleagues who stayed.! I left to return to the UK and as frustrating as the NHS can be, I am very grateful for it.

The first time I met a SDA was on holiday aged about 12. I’m Jewish and my parents brought me up quite religious so we stayed at vegetarian hotels because my dad wouldn’t eat anywhere where non-kosher meat had been cooked.

I was fascinated that some Christians ‘kept Shabbat’ like us!

@Ipsevenenabibas Ephesians 1:1 says “to God’s holy people in Ephesus” - are the souls of all Ephesians in heaven? Since they were all called a holy group of people?

The word “saint” (hagios) means all those who are believers in God. In Romans 1:7 “all” are called to be holy. Hebrews 10:10 says we are made holy by Jesus’ sacrifice, not by any church who confirms or declares us so. If you read Hebrews 10:14 and Ephesians 4:12 you see that we are all called to be saints and holy - are we not qualified to work in God’s ministry if we are not officially declared as saints by some earthly authority?

Ultimately, the Bible does not support the concept of souls going to heaven once they die, so fundamentally our understandings are so opposed that the argument is a moot point.

The Catholic Church did not successfully preserve truths on its own. In the early centuries of the Christian faith, there were many faithful believers that did not end up aligning themselves with the church in Rome, who had to make many compromises in order to ascend to power. During the early persecutions, there were many Christians - Roman or not, who defended Christ’s teachings and the core truths you mention. In the dark ages, the Roman Catholic Church persecuted many - including the Lutheran movement later on, for defending biblical truths that were not aligned with the church’s (man-made) teachings and policies. God’s faithful servants were at work throughout history, both in and out of the Roman church. It was not an institution that protected the beliefs, it was God through His chosen people.

Those early groups you mention that the church fought and who did not accept Christ’s divinity are, by nature, not Christian groups. Not sure how they play into the issue.

Catholic people are not evil or demonic. Many people take particular offence to EG White’s description of their church as an institution, and think we Adventists believe Catholics have those traits. The Roman Catholic Church promotes a level of human power that is not biblical, and completely misaligned with God’s teachings. They believe the biblical text can be changed or altered and its meanings modified. God did not appoint a human representative on earth - He left us the Holy Spirit. As I said, these are very fundamental differences between our churches and make for very complex discussions.

Doesn't it feel a bit mad to adhere to a movement that only exists because the one it grew out of turned out to be wrong about Jesus showing up in 1844?

I would have to disagree, as without the rest of the Bible there are many aspects of Christ’s teachings and the events before and after His death that cannot be explained.

The book of Acts was written by Luke and is a second volume to the two-part work that includes his gospel. Who or what says the gospel is relevant to understanding Jesus, but the book of Acts isn’t?

I think we could all do with some extra compassion and critical thinking overall, yeah. I feel sad that churches don’t generally teach us to think and research on our own, but rather to exclude based on a set of rigid rules that are usually man-made…

I don't recognise the version of SD Adventism you are describing here OP and I wonder if it's because you are not UK based. My experience has been entirely negative, and my DD aged 11 was beaten up in an empty classroom by other year 7 girls, all SDAs, after a history lesson where the teacher was espousing creationism. He asked those who believed in evolution to put their hands up and DD didn't realise there would be a consequence for this so innocently put her hand up.

This was in a UK state school so I was pretty pissed off that the teacher was supporting it and I think he emboldened the SDA group of girls to think they could attack DD with impunity.

Never heard of it. Are you one of the new Christian sects that follow a false prophet? Do you believe in the TRINITY? Do you have the eucharist?
Are you obliged to give money to the church? Do you shun members if they leave? Which bible version do you read from?

A Christian in anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. You, and all other Christian denominations, I consider Christian if that is what they teach. I find your that person’s statement at your friend’s church a bit odd!

I definitely don’t consider anyone less than me, or other faiths to be inferior. I believe the SDA church holds the most truthful beliefs, which is why I am a member, but that doesn’t mean other churches may not also be enlightened. God doesn’t care what church we belong to, He wants us to get to know Him as best as we can and to keep developing our relationship with Him through prayer and study. I’m glad you are able to pray with your friend now 😊 And that she has left some of her earlier beliefs behind…

I keep the Sabbath from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. I don’t shop, cook or do household chores unless necessary, I try not to travel or partake in “normal” entertainment such as TV, sports or non-Christian books during that time. I don’t schedule work that I have control over during the Sabbath hours, but due to the industry I work in, I don’t always get to choose. I work a lot of evenings so will go to work Friday night when required - but wouldn’t actively choose to schedule a meeting or event during the Sabbath hours, if that makes sense. It wasn’t easy to come to this decision as I grew up in a family that did not work at all during the Sabbath hours - even to the detriment of their careers sometimes.

I have not always been that strict, and I do remain flexible when I’m away from home, for example, and can’t store food in a fridge to last me from Friday pm to Saturday pm - I would then go to the supermarket or a restaurant and buy food. I try to prepare for the Sabbath as best as I can, but will not make keeping the Sabbath a chore or struggle. It was made for our enjoyment, not the other way around.

I think God has given us the tools and the resources to study His teachings and decide for ourselves how we understand them. It’s our duty to use those tools and decide if His will for us is to keep Saturday vs Sunday rest, for example. I don’t believe not keeping the Saturday as the Sabbath day of rest means you’re not saved, or that keeping it automatically brings salvation. God will judge every person according to their understanding and honesty of their hearts.

That’s really cool! I hadn’t heard of vegetarian hotels, but it’s true that there are many practical things that are similar between the Jewish and SDA faiths. My parents loved to say a special prayer and song at the start of the Sabbath, and that’s a beautiful tradition that I believes stems from the Jewish faith.

Haha I thought of that before! Personally I think it shows that even when we have our best interests at heart, we can be wrong about things so who am I to judge others or be 100% certain what I believe in is the only right answer… I think for some people our history brings a sense of “look how special we are” - which is mad indeed, but personally it has made me a lot more flexible in my thinking and curious. God can work in mysterious and funny ways, even through a bunch of confused people, so who’s to say what He will do in the future!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I think we actually have a lot of common ground on the word 'saint' (hagios). The Catholic Church completely agrees with you that all baptized believers are called to holiness and are considered 'saints' in the New Testament sense. St. Paul addresses his letters to the 'saints' in Ephesus and Rome because they were set apart by Christ’s sacrifice, exactly as you noted from Hebrews 10. Where we differ is the definition of canonisation. The Catholic Church does not 'make' someone a saint, nor does she claim that an earthly authority is required for someone to do ministry or enter heaven. Canonisation is simply a post-mortem, historical investigation. It is an official declaration by the Church that a specific person lived a life of heroic virtue, is definitively in heaven, and serves as an authentic role model for the faithful. It recognises what God has already done; it doesn't grant a title or validation that a believer lacked in life.

You mentioned that the Bible does not support souls going to heaven at death, which is the Seventh-day Adventist doctrine of 'soul sleep.' However, Scripture repeatedly presents the souls of the deceased as fully conscious before the final physical resurrection:

• The Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1–3): Deuteronomy 34:5 explicitly states that Moses died and was buried. Yet, centuries later, Moses appears on the mountain, fully conscious, conversing with Jesus and Elijah. If the dead are completely unconscious until the second coming, how was Moses interacting with Christ?
• The Thief on the Cross (Luke 23:43): Jesus says to the dying thief, 'Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.' If the thief fell into an unconscious sleep for thousands of years, Jesus's use of the word 'today' becomes contradictory.
• Paul’s Desire (Philippians 1:21–23): St. Paul writes, 'For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain... I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far.' If death is just an unconscious void until the resurrection, dying would not bring Paul into the immediate presence of Christ, making it no different or 'better' than waiting on earth.
• The Martyrs in Heaven (Revelation 6:9–10): Saint John sees the souls of the martyrs under the altar in heaven. They are consciously crying out to God in a loud voice, asking, 'How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth?' Unconscious, sleeping souls cannot ask questions about the passage of earthly time.

Your historical perspective raises a profound logical dilemma. You noted that God preserved His truths through scattered, faithful believers rather than the institutional Church in Rome, which you argue compromised for power. If that is the case, we have to look at the history of the Bible itself. The collection of texts we call the New Testament did not drop from the sky as a single bound book. In the early centuries, there were dozens of competing texts—such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Gospel of Peter. The actual historical record shows that the 27 books of the New Testament canon were officially compiled, vetted, and finalized by the Catholic Church through local councils under the authority of the Pope and bishops (the Councils of Rome in 382, Hippo in 393, and Carthage in 397). This presents a serious question: If the visible, institutional Church was already corrupt, power-hungry, and apostate by the 4th century, how can we trust that this exact same Church was infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit to choose the correct, inspired books of the Bible? If the instrument was corrupted, the fruit of that instrument (the Bible we both read) would be untrustworthy. History shows that the protection of scripture and the institutional continuity of the Church are inseparable.

Finally, regarding your point on human authority, Catholics do not believe the Pope replaces the Holy Spirit. Rather, we believe the Holy Spirit actively works through the visible structure that Jesus explicitly established. In Matthew 16:18–19, Jesus changes Simon’s name to Peter (Rock) and states, 'On this rock I will build my church... I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.' To a first-century Jew, 'the keys' was a direct reference to Isaiah 22:22, where the Davidic King appointed a Prime Minister (the Chief Steward) to rule the kingdom with absolute authority while the King was away. Jesus is our eternal King, but before ascending to heaven, He appointed Peter as His earthly visible representative (or Vicar) to steward His flock (John 21:15–17). We see this structure in action in Acts 15 at the Council of Jerusalem. When a fierce theological debate broke out over circumcision, the early Christians didn't just rely on individual interpretations of the Holy Spirit. The Apostles and elders gathered as a visible, authoritative hierarchy. After Peter spoke, the debate ended, and they issued a binding decree that concluded: 'It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us...' (Acts 15:28). God has always used human leadership, guided by the Holy Spirit, to govern His people.

That is absolutely horrendous. I’m sorry your DD had to go through that. Those “Adventist” parents and teacher should be ashamed of themselves.

I am not UK based but I have lived in England and attended SDA churches there, and even had a short stay at an Adventist school near London in the early 2010’s. If anything, I consider the UK church to be much more liberal than in other countries, so it’s sad to hear there are still people who call themselves loving Christians but treat people like your DD was treated. Thugs come in all shapes and religions.

I actually remember some science classes at the Adventist school I mention in the UK, and both creationism and evolution were explained - I thought this was a legal requirement? At least in my (European) home country it is. I went to an SDA school and both were taught, as it should be in these cases.

It’s just that the ‘Great Disappointment’ cracks me up!

We don’t follow any false prophet but do consider Ellen G. White’s writings to be inspired - she’s long dead though. The church was funded in the mid 19th century, not sure if you consider that new or not. We do believe in the Trinity.

Every quarter, so roughly every 3 months, we celebrate Holy Communion - foot washing, and eating of bread and drinking of wine. Non-alcoholic in our case though!

No one is obliged to give any money - I do tithe my income and give offerings on a regular basis to specific projects, but I also know plenty of people who don’t. We do have tithing as one of our fundamental beliefs, so I would say a majority of people do give it, however your membership won’t be excluded if you don’t, and there is fairly transparent access to information on where your money goes to.

I like the NKJV and NIV versions in English, but have recently found the new living translation very useful too. I mostly read in my first language though - the KJV equivalent of it.

Have you ever thought that there might not be a God? Absolute 100% certainty regarding the existence or non-existence of a god is impossible.

What is your opinion of atheists?

Yes, I have wondered about this a lot, and had heated debates during my university days which made me really think about my position.

Ultimately, no one can prove with absolute certainty either theory, like you say. God may exist, or He may not. That is where faith comes into play.

Some things we don’t understand, and by faith we carry on. I know God exists because of how I have seen Him act in my life. However, I cannot prove it. I have faith that one day I will be able to, once He returns.

I don’t have a particular opinion of them, I wouldn’t know how to identify one when I’m walking down the street. I have the hope that one day all people will hear of God’s love and experience it for real themselves, but I do not have any specific feelings towards them other than those towards any other person.

@Ipsevenenabibas I must get started on dinner but will return later in the evening for a proper answer to your post. I am enjoying the conversation you have brought on those topics 😊

Well aware of it.

Is your Sabbath Saturday night to Sunday night as strict as Shabbos in Judaism?

Is this thread an attempt at proselytising?

You say you believe in the creation story, so you believe God personally created every creature? Why did he create parasites, what about cruel diseases? Why would a loving God create something that would only result in suffering? How can you worship a deity that not only allows these things to happen, but actively created the parasites, viruses and bacteria that cause them, and cancer. Like Stephen Fry, I need someone explain why God created brain cancer in children. Or ALS, or MS, or any of the terrible diseases and conditions that afflict people.

OP, I just wanted to pop on and say thanks for the lovely thread. I know how much time and effort are involved in running a thread like this.

I was raised Catholic, left in my 20s, and later joined the Episcopal Church, the American successor to the C of E. One thing I like about the Episcopal Church is that it gives members a lot of latitude in how they interpret scripture, outside the core beliefs.

Your thinking is much less rigid than that of the SDAs I've known in the U.S. The SDA church does have a reputation here for being a bit dogmatic and literalist. So it's nice to see that you don't fit that stereotype.

I do think our consciousness goes on after death, partly because of the NT passages that @Ipsevenenabibas cites above, and partly because there's evidence that it does, in the research on near death experiences:

Near-Death Experiences Evidence for Their Reality

and the research on past life memories in young children.

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/our-research/children-who-report-memories-of-previous-lives/

Neither are definitive, of course, but I find them highly suggestive that our transition into the afterlife is immediate.

Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord.

Our Sabbath goes from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. Just as in Judaism, there are many personal interpretations of how one should observe the Sabbath. In general I would say no, it is not as strict as the more orthodox versions of Judaism. Most people do not work during those hours, and many will prepare food, clean their house and wash their clothes beforehand. However, we do not follow the mosaic laws so there are no restrictions on eg how long one should walk, drive a car etc. I don’t know of any Adventist who doesn’t use electricity switches or their electronic devices on Saturdays, or who pre-cuts toilet paper squares as not to work on the Sabbath day. There are various levels of strictness and how anyone interprets it.

I didn’t start the thread in order to proselytise - it’s actually turning more into a debate on the state of the dead and early Christian history, than an exposition of the SDA beliefs 😂

Thank you for this question. I had actually never thought about the creation of parasites and bacteria specifically, but the Bible says that God made His creation perfect - as in, it was good and working well. There was no death and disease in the original created world. I don’t know exactly which creatures and organisms were created by God himself, and which evolved later. I imagine if viruses as such existed, they were working for the good of whatever being they inhabited in, were not actively harmful and causing death or disease. Even today we inject live viruses into our bodies to build immunity and protect us from certain diseases. The same way animals and humans coexisted peacefully, there was no violence or killings in the animal kingdom. The Bible says in Isaiah this peaceful order will be restored in heaven.

When sin entered the world through humans disobeying God, pain and suffering also came in. What were perfect beings, became corrupted and capable of killing or harming.

I believe there is an ongoing fight, or war, between God and the evil forces of Satan. Why does God “stand by” as children die, people to suffer from chronic pain, and all the awful things that happen in this world? I honestly cannot fully explain it. I do know, that this is not what God created though. It was man’s choice to walk away from God and His perfect creation and plan.

The consequence of sin is death, pain, and suffering. God doesn’t inflict those things on us, it is Satan and the evil in this world who cause the suffering, because they want people to turn away from God and accuse Him of being unjust and untrue (see that first sin in Eden). God has said this will not be forever. There is a hope that He will come again and end all death and pain. Things will be made perfect again. I wish it were bloody soon though.

I cannot explain why children go through the most awful things. It is terribly unfair. God weeps and suffers with us as He sees these things happening.