AMA on divorce, financial separation and co-parenting with Amanda Bell

[RhiannonEMumsnet]

Hi everyone,

We’re pleased to announce that Amanda Bell, Co-Founder of affordable divorce platform SeparateSpace, will be doing an AMA this Monday (9th December) covering divorce, financial separation and co-parenting.

Before founding SeparateSpace, Amanda was a Legal 500 recommended family lawyer at a market leading London law firm. She helped hundreds of clients sort out their finances and parenting arrangements following separation. Amanda now leads SeparateSpace - an online platform created by experts across law, finance, therapy and psychology to provide affordable support through divorce. As Amanda explains, “The problem is that divorce is confusing and lawyers are expensive. People find themselves struggling with decisions about finances and children, worried about taking a wrong step they’ll regret. They’re left feeling powerless and stressed out. At SeparateSpace we believe it shouldn’t be this hard.”

This time of year can bring challenges - from figuring out child arrangements for the Christmas holidays to coming up with a plan for moving forward with divorce in the new year. Amanda will be answering questions on Monday evening between 4pm and 7:30pm. You can post your questions in advance or join her on Monday.

As always, please remember our guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Answers are intended to be information for people in England and Wales. This information doesn't qualify as legal, tax, accounting or financial advice. If you are uncertain about your position, you should obtain professional specialist advice.

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Clean Breaks. I did a DIY divorce many years ago. If I want to apply for a clean break now, do I use what we mutually agreed at the time of divorce (50/50) or do they go on today's figures? Our situation is that I bought a house (with a mortgage) with my half of the sale of the marital home, he chose to rent and has hit hard times and now lives in council supported accommodation.

For added info, I never went after his pensions (which were excellent) as there were 12 years in age difference between us and I felt I could work more years than him to get my own. Still happy not to include that unless of course we have to go on today's figures.

Im due to go to a final financial hearing in the Spring. My Ex has refused to comply/delayed the process; court deadlines were put in place last January, to which he ignored, and he was served a Penal Notice and issued a fine at the next hearing last August. For background, I had to flee the FMH and have been living off grid with no access to finances for nearly two years now. He pleaded guilty to Harassment at a court hearing last June that the CPS brought against him and he has a restraining order. I just want something resolved and to be able to move on. 50/50 would be fine (should I be trying for more given circumstances?) but all money tied up in property and I just don't know how long it would take to possibly sell (he's bound to block that as he's living there) and I would have to evict him. Will the court take all this into account? Can I ask him to pay my additional legal fees to keep fighting this? Is there anything else I can try and look at to make him engage? Any thoughts gratefully appreciated, thank you

Please could anyone tell me what a likely court outcome is when one parent is happy to go with the CAFCASS report but the other isn't and neither side is prepared to offer anything more to appease the other. One parent is fighting for something the CAFCASS officer explicitly said wouldn't be in the interests of the child? I read that the report is usually followed but I'd like to know on what grounds the report could be contested. I'd like to think any safeguarding concerns would be picked up on already by CAFCASS. This hearing is going to cost me thousands and I can't face another but obviously I don't have much choice when I need to look out for the welfare of my child.

How does a financial settlement work when one party is already retired? Does disability and recieving an ill health retirement pension make a difference?

My husband and I are mid 40s. I recently became disabled and was awarded highest level ill health retirement. I get a pension income of £25k p.a. Although I'd rather be healthy and work, its a huge comfort having this financial stability. My husband has a good income. We have good savings, our house and school age children.

When I was working, we earned similar and both saved well for retirement. Since then, my husband's income has increased and is three times my pension. But he keeps joking his private pensions will end up giving him less the income than my NHS pension. It makes me worry that I could lose some of my pension income to him if we divorced.

How can I motivate my partner to be/remain a good dad to our DC? He's always been volatile but since we agreed to split he's been sullen and withdrawn to both kids (tweens, they don't know yet). He can be spiteful and vicious and I don't want him to turn on them but think hes likely to.

Hi Amanda,

I'd like to ask a question about credit card debt. I'm currently considering a divorce but I have a significant (circa 30k) amount of credit card debt in my name. It's from joint spending and my husband earns considerably more than me (we don't have any kids so no maintenance issues). How would this be assessed as part of the process? If I can prove it's household spending can he be forced to take on responsibility for some of the debt or could I potentially be left with it all?

Thank you.

Hi Amanda

I also did a DIY divorce 20 odd years ago but do not recall a clean break or financial settlement. We had no house or children so just split our savings. How can I find out if this exists? I can’t imagine my ex husband would come after me for any money but you never know. (I have been much wiser in my finances since than he has). Thank you

If my partner has a house with his ex wife that is now on a rolling mortgage she won’t sign it over to him (he offered to buy her out) she won’t/can’t take it on alone (due to affordability) how do we get him off it? Is the only option force her to sell? If so how do we go about that? Children are involved 1 with us 2 with her.

Hi everyone, thanks for being here. I’m Amanda - really happy to be here today to do an AMA on divorce, financial separation and co-parenting.

I worked as a lawyer for many years before founding SeparateSpace. I’ve also had several people close to me go through separation. I know how stressful and confusing divorce (and all that comes with it) can be.

If you’re reading this and in the midst of your own divorce or separation, I’m sending you strength. I hope I can help you today. Pop any questions you have in the chat below.

If you want some more pointers, and you’re at the start of the process, you might find this free checklist helpful.

And if you have children, you might find this free children’s book a helpful resource.

You might also like to check out SeparateSpace - it’s an online platform that helps people going through divorce. We know that with the right information and tools, people feel far more empowered to manage the divorce process and make informed decisions. And that’s what SeparateSpace was built to deliver. If you want to know more, you can check out our website.

Thanks for the questions that have come through already. I’m going to get cracking on those now. Any other questions are very welcome.

Amanda x

There are a couple of questions about getting a financial order.

For anyone reading this, you can manage the process of legally ending your marriage yourself (and I think that’s what you mean by a DIY divorce).

But the divorce itself (the process of legally ending your marriage) doesn’t cut all financial ties between you. To cut all financial ties, you need a financial order from the court.

You and your ex can agree a financial deal yourselves. (And perhaps you already have, but haven’t formalised it yet.)

To formalise the agreement you need a consent order from the court.

To get a consent order, you need to get your financial agreement written up formally as a court order. You can get a professional to do this for you - this tends to cost upwards of about £700.

Once you’ve got a consent order and it’s signed by you and your ex, you’ll need to send it to the court, together with a Statement of Information. The Statement of Information (also called a Form D81) provides the court with an overview of your financial situation, which is crucial for the judge to assess the fairness of the order. Both parties must sign this form to confirm full and frank disclosure of their financial positions.

The figures in the D81 will need to be the current figures (even if you separated a long time ago). But, if there has been a long gap between your separation and sorting out the finances, you can explain that that’s the case on the D81.

Most courts also require a Form A explaining that you are asking the court for a consent order. There is a fee of £58.

A judge will then review all of this paperwork and, provided they don’t have any questions or concerns about it, will make the order. The agreement is then legally binding and the financial ties between you end.

Hello - the answer above about consent orders will be relevant to you here. You'll need to tell the court what the financial picture looks like now in your Form D81 (Statement of Information). But that doesn't mean you have to share what you've built up since the time of your divorce. If there has been a long delay, there could be a strong argument that whatever has been built up by one of you shouldn’t be shared.

Here's a link to the Form D81 so you can see what information will be required: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-d81-statement-of-information-for-a-consent-order-in-relation-to-a-financial-remedy

How do the courts view spousal maintenance these days where there are enough assets to meet both parties housing needs? One party has a high income and the other moderate. Children secondary school age. How long would spousal usually be for these days?

Can you confirm costs of student age dc are not included?

Hello - thanks for your question.

If you and your ex reach a deal before the final hearing in the spring then the court proceedings will stop - there would be no final hearing if you've reached a settlement.

But, obviously, it requires both of you to engage in order to get to an agreement.

And unfortunately it sounds like he's just not engaging. I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds incredibly stressful.

I expect you know that if the other person refuses to engage at all, then the only option is court proceedings - and I expect that is why you are at the stage you're at.

In terms of what to offer, and your costs, I think you need legal advice. Do you have a lawyer?

You may be eligible for legal aid - take a look at this: https://www.gov.uk/check-legal-aid

If you can't afford a lawyer, then you can also try:

Support through court: https://supportthroughcourt.org/

Advocate: https://weareadvocate.org.uk/

Citizen's Advice: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

Hello @Sarahd3342

This sounds hugely stressful. I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with it.

The CAFCASS report won't determine the outcome - it's the Judge that determines the outcome. But, the Judge at the final hearing will have all of the background about your case - the court application(s), any and all statements you've each made, the CAFCASS report etc. And so they'll make a decision in that context.

It sounds like you have a lawyer because you mention the costs that will be involved in going to a final hearing. I wonder if your lawyer has any ideas about how to reach an agreement? Sometimes in cases involving children, a middle ground/compromise simply isn't possible (for example, when one parent wants to move to another country with the child - they either move or they don't, there's no middle ground). Is there any middle ground in your case? Is it worth trying mediation (even if you've already tried it - you might find with a mediator who is very skilled in cases like yours, you're able to find a solution). Happy to give you the names of some mediators I know are excellent with incredibly difficult children cases - feel free to DM me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/separatespace/

Hi and thanks for the AMA. I'm asking on behalf of my sister who is separated and heading for divorce. He is difficult generally and emotionally abusive, very manipulative. Will she have to do any mediation with him re the children? They have two, age 14 and 12 and he has been 'working' on them in what can only be described as alienation. He can be really personable and charming in public but he's actually dreadful. We can see a situation where he manipulates professionals to do his bidding to be honest. At the moment the co parenting is not formalised. He does what he wants. Finances are also a worry as he's self-employed and we are pretty sure he will manipulate that somehow. Any advice welcome.

Hello,

Left my home with my child suddenly due to DA. He continues to live in our jointly owned home. He changed the locks to stop me getting back in. We were left homeless for a few weeks.

I am now going through divorce courts. I couldn't afford the mortgage and rent on a flat so stopped paying mortgage. He pays it all because he has refused to sell. But over a year down the line, I have wastes £18k in rent. If he claims he should get more than 50% of the equity because he has been paying the mortgage all this time, will the court take into consideration the money I have wasted in rent (which equates to 50% more than my mortgage contributions)?

Essentially I would like to know if the court is likely to still award me 50% of the equity in the house I jointly, equally own? Thank you.

Hi @AlisonAbbey

The first thing to say is that when you’re dealing with finances on divorce, all aspects of your financial situation have to be disclosed.

So you’ll need to give full information about your pension. This will be relevant to the financial separation. The fact that your husband is able to earn an income is also relevant and he will need to give full information about what he earns.

It might help you to have a look at this form (called a Form E), which is the standard court form that someone going through divorce has to fill out to explain what their finances look like: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63c132468fa8f516ac0d5a6d/Form_E_0123_save.pdf 

As to how the finances are divided, it varies case to case (what an annoying answer - “it depends”) - but it’s important for you to know that “needs” play a crucial role in determining what is considered a fair outcome.

The focus is on making sure (in so far as it’s possible) that the children (you mention school aged kids in your question) and both of you have your basic needs met - that includes having a place to live and the means to cover day-to-day living expenses, both now and into retirement.

The concept of "needs" is flexible and varies from case to case, as it depends on the unique circumstances of each couple. So, circumstances including the standard of living during the marriage and the ages and health of the parties are considered when assessing needs.

Your health and the impact it has on your earning capacity is relevant.
The court aims to achieve a fair distribution of assets, often starting with a 50/50 split of matrimonial assets, but adjustments are often made to ensure both parties' needs are adequately addressed.

Hope this helps.

@Userxyd It sounds like you're a great parent. I'm sorry you're in this situation. You don't mention how long you've been separated, but it may be that when the dust settles and your ex is more used to the situation, he's able to engage more positively with the children. I have seen this with other parents in the past.

But I know that's probably not a huge comfort - childhood is short and it sounds like your kids have had a good relationship with their dad in the past.

The reality is that you can't control how your ex chooses to show up as a parent. You can only control how you behave.

There are things you can do to encourage the relationship between your children and their dad - for example, talk positively about him to them - but I suspect that you're already doing that.

I wonder if you can tell your ex how important his role as a dad is? Would that help? You know him and how he might react.

Some parents I've worked with in the past have benefitted from seeing a therapist together after they've split. It's not about 'fixing' their marriage/relationship, but about their co-parenting and how they can work with one another to support and parent their kids. If cost is an issue (as it is for so many people, especially at the moment), check out low-cost therapy options - I know of a few therapists who offer discounted rates on a means tested basis.

We post co-parenting tips on our Instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/separatespace/

You might also like to check out this free resource for kids: https://www.separatespace.co.uk/free-interactive-book-for-children

There are several good charities that work with dads - eg www.dadsunltd.co.uk.

Now might not be the time to send him any of this stuff, but it might be something you think about suggesting to him in a few weeks or months.

Hi @DawnAttwood - thanks for the question.

As the credit card debt is in your name, you’re the person who is legally liable to repay the money owed. However, on a divorce, the court will look at all liabilities and debts as part of the overall financial separation.

Therefore even if debts are only in one person’s name, they are likely to impact the financial settlement for both of you.

That’s because the practical impact of debts is that they will impact what property and money there is to divide between you.

It may be that you consider whether the debt can be repaid from capital - for example, using savings, or selling a property, to pay it off. The result is that you’ll reduce the capital assets.

You might also consider whether the debt can be repaid from income - reducing what you have each month to pay for your other day to day costs.

Either way, the debt can’t be ignored - because it will impact what is left over afterwards to meet needs.

(This may not be relevant - but if it is, or for anyone else reading this - if you are struggling to work out how to deal with debt, it might be useful to speak to a specialist debt counsellor to work out a repayment plan that will also work in the context of the financial separation, the Citizens Advice Bureau is a good place to start.)

Hi @Wholelotagrey
Thanks for this question. Did they get a consent order when they got divorced? (That's the formal court document that sets out the financial settlement they reached). What does that document say about the property? That's the best place to start because a court order is legally binding and enforceable.

@77Fee hello, and thank you for your question. I'm afraid I don't know about the law in Scotland so can't help with this one. Sorry x

Hi @parent17464748
The court has to consider if a clean break (meaning no spousal maintenance) is possible. Spousal maintenance will only ever be paid for a period of time necessary to support the person receiving it to transition to independence.

If maintenance is deemed necessary, the court will consider the minimum period required for the recipient to become financially independent. This period is often linked to the recipient's ability to increase their income through working longer hours or upskilling.

You also asked if child maintenance is payable for a child who is a student. I assume you mean at tertiary, such as uni? It’s possible for parents to agree to extend child maintenance payments until the child completes full-time tertiary education, such as university - this sort of arrangement often involves a high-income paying parent. In such cases, the maintenance payment is often divided, with a portion going to the other parent to cover costs when the child is home during uni holidays, and the remainder paid directly to the child to assist with their living expenses, such as accommodation, food, and travel.

@Channellingsophistication Thanks for this question.

Best thing is to ask the court to check their records.

Assuming you still have the divorce order itself (the bit of legal paperwork that formally ended your marriage; 20 years ago it was called the ‘Decree Absolute’), check it to see which court processed your divorce. The document should also set out a case number (you'll find this info at the top of the page).

I'd suggest that you get in touch with that court and ask them to check if a financial consent order was ever made.

It can be VERY difficult to get hold of someone on the phone at the court - they are under-resourced so be persistent and try email as well as phone.

@Monsteronthehill I’m really sorry your sister is going through this. I hope she’s ok. I hope you’re ok too - I know how hard it can be watching someone you love dealing with all of this.

It may help to know a bit more about the mediation process. It’s a voluntary process. The idea is that the mediator - an independent, professionally trained professional - helps work out an agreement. Mediators are neutral - they don't take sides or give legal advice.

The mediation process usually starts with the mediator meeting with each person separately. In those separate meetings, the mediator will get an understanding of the issues and assess whether mediation is suitable. If your sister chooses to give mediation a go, she can tell the mediator in this meeting that she’s concerned about her ex being manipulative.

It’s possible to do mediation online (so your sister and her ex wouldn’t be in the same room / physical location) and shuttle mediation is possible too, meaning that the mediator moves from person to person (rather than everyone having to be in the same room at the same time).

As discussions include issues relating to children, your sister may be eligible for the mediation voucher scheme which gives £500 towards the costs of mediation. Find out more here.

If she’s on benefits or has a low income, she may be eligible for legal aid for mediation. Find out more here.

All of the above said, mediation may not be the right path for your sister, and that’s OK too. You mention emotional abuse, and certainly domestic abuse (which includes emotional abuse and coercive control) can be a very valid reason for not going down the mediation route.

I should also say that if your sister or her ex get to the point of making a court application, the person starting the court proceedings would have to attend a Mediation Information and Assessment Meeting (called a ‘MIAM’) - it may be that at that meeting the mediator says mediation isn’t appropriate because of the behaviour of your sister’s ex.

Finally, you say your sister’s ex might be tricky about money. If you think he might mess around with the finances - refusing to give honest and full information about the finances, for example, then it’s a good idea to get legal advice as soon as possible.