I'm a Jewish Israeli, AMA

[israelilefty]

Jewish Israeli here. I grew up in a different country but have lived and worked most of my adult life here, living a fairly normal everyday life in northern Israel. When I'm not working, I enjoy cooking and hiking, I'm religiously observant (but also feminist), I'm on the left of the political spectrum, and have everyday contact with people from quite a range of different perspectives - Israeli society is incredibly diverse.

I guess I see us portrayed in a kind of monolithic way in the English-language media, so I'm taking a deep breath and posting here...

Feel free to AMA, just remember you're asking a real person, not a government or military spokesman :) I'll try to answer from my personal standpoint. as long as it's asked in good faith.

Thanks for your answers @israelilefty. I've learned so much from you.

@Thereissomelight @LolaSmiles : I know I've been a bit of a broken record recommending the 'Unholy' podcast on this thread (a news review focusing on Israel and the Jewish world with Yonit Levi of channel 12 news in Israel, and Jonathan Freedland of the UK Guardian). However, I'll recommend it again - I just listened to this week's episode, and in the first part they directly address the issue you raised here - the claims Israel is planning to transfer Gazans to a third country, and why that claim has been taken seriously overseas and not in Israel. As I've said before, this is a rare opportunity in English to hear a very mainstream Israeli voice (Yonit Levy presents one of the major prime time news shows) discussing the news. The rest of the podcast, with a former White House press secretary is also really interesting, looking at the gap between what is reported in ceasefire efforts etc and what happens behind the scenes.

And because it's Mumsnet, aside from the good quality journalism. I also like that this is one of very few political podcasts that gives equal representation to - or even foregrounds - the voices of women.

@israelilefty awhile ago I read a post from someone who had family that had made aliyah from the UK. She talked a little about the process and also mentioned that many people will eventually move back to the country they migrated from or elsewhere.

I wanted to ask what are the general challenges for people making aliyah? And why do many (if that is really the case) move back again. If I remember correctly the poster mentioned economic reasons as one of the reasons but said there were other reasons too

Also I have seen videos of people being welcomed by large welcome home parties and banners when they make aliyah. Did you have a similar reception?
Thank you

Would also like to second this.
I really have too

Would also like to second this.
I really have too
Same here. Great thread OP.

I'd also like to thank posters posting who have engaged in good faith discussion overall. It goes to show that people can come from different places and positions and still discuss in food faith.

Completely agree. Thank you so much @israelilefty

I find it really interesting what you say about Israeli culture. I think a lot of westerners assume that it is a western country in the middle-east. Partly because it is a democracy and partly because we have large Jewish populations in the west. Maybe we imagine it like north London in the desert :) But you’re saying that in many important ways it is culturally middle-eastern and this impacts the rhetoric used. I think in the west we have forgotten how important the ‘strong man’ image is in some diplomacy.

Question: you obviously have a leftist position with a strong desire for compromise and reconciliation. Do you know if there is a significant Palestinian movement along these lines or is that position more culturally difficult for Palestinians?

Foregrounds the voices of women

So important. The older I get, the more I think this to be true. Because everywhere on all sides we see almost overwhelmingly male leaders. And while a number of these men are decent people trying to create order out of chaos, a very high proportion of the ones who hustle their way to the top are power-hungry liars and killers, with their extreme violence, their billion dollar weapons, their false-flag operations, their toxic rhetoric. Very difficult for quiet, decent men to oppose these psychopaths but I’d like to see some kind of worldwide rule that mandates that bright, motivated female mediators and specialists from all backgrounds must be present at every decision table. And everyone must agree to centre all children in every decision and a red line for everyone is the killing of a child.

I’ll look at that podcast, thank you.

And everyone must agree to centre all children in every decision and a red line for everyone is the killing of a child.

And the raping of girls (and women) and the use of children as soldiers and human shields.

@YetAnotherSpartacus
Of course!

When I watch Rachel Goldberg's daily posts about Hersch and the other hostages I am convinced that listening to her and other women would have meant a far different outcome. We need more women in politics and conflict situations.

Dear all, as in previous weeks I will be back to answer questions after the Jewish Shabbat. Meanwhile I join the posters above in thanking you all for showing that we have can have a respectful discussion between people with different opinions about a difficult topic on an internet forum! I’m not taking any of those things for granted.

שבת שלום Shabbat shalom (have a peaceful Sabbath)

Shabbat shalom to you OP

Shabbat Shalom @israelilefty enjoy a few days off if you can!

Shabbat Shalom israelilefty am israel chai

@ parkingt111

"I wanted to ask what are the general challenges for people making aliyah?"

Speaking personally, I tried this many years ago from north London to
Tel Aviv and it was the heat that brought me back to the UK. I kept being told it will take approx three years for your blood to thin enough to be able to cope in high summer but I just couldn't hack it.

I also felt very English when it came to queuing for things like buses. Israelis just don't have the concept of an orderly line. Maybe it's changed - I'm talking 40 years ago.

I guess the spirit to live a different life was lacking in me.

@yumyum33 thank you for sharing that.
The heat and dis-orderly lines would probably apply to most of the middle east
I find our English summers difficult to handle at times so I would probably be the same if i had to re-locate somewhere which has a much warmer climate 😅

Maybe we need to different thread such as did you ever leave the UK and decide to return :)

.The below link is an update for me on the issue I asked OP about upthread. Apologies to those of you who know a lot more about Israeli internal politics than I do.

A link is not a question. OP is not in charge of Israeli government policy.

For those who don't know: "make aliyah" = move to Israel.

No, I wasn't welcomed by a big party! That's generally when people already have family in Israel who want to meet them at the airport. When I arrived, I was on the same plane as about 30 other immigrants from my country. We were taken straight off the plane to a hut at the airport where our details were registered and we were given an immigration certificate, and while we were waiting some nice volunteer ladies gave us a cheese sandwich. It all felt rather 1950s :) There was a small ceremony the next day when we received Israeli IDs but nothing grandiose and it wasn't obligatory to attend. The rest of it involved, like any overseas move, a lot of chasing around government offices, phone companies, banks etc...

I think the general challenges are similar to anyone moving country: language, work, culture, getting used to things simply working in a different way to what they are used to.

I don't know statistics for people moving back, but among the reasons people I know have moved back to their home country are:

• Economic - not finding enough work to make ends meet, being offered a better job in the country of origin.

• Meeting a partner from another country and it makes more sense to live in the other country (eg partner's job is difficult to transfer to Israel).

• Moving closer to family - sometimes younger people realise they want to be near their parents when they start having kids for family support.

These are all probably the top reasons. Others people have mentioned include:

• Cultural reasons - feeling that quality of life is better in country of origin; not liking the Israeli educational system etc.

• Conflict has played a role in a couple of my friends' decisions to leave (though it hasn't been the only reason): finding the cycles of conflict very stressful, not wishing kids to grow in a country where the is a danger of suicide bombers, Hamas missiles, or whatever the present threat is.

It's also worth mentioning that among the people I know, most who left, left while quite young (20s/30s) before building a family or with very young kids, so in a way they were still in the more mobile stage before settling down when many young people move between cities or sometimes countries.

I know that there are a significant number of Palestinians within Israel (Israeli Arabs) with similar views, and there are shared movements like Standing Together. There are also movements including Israelis and Palestinians from the West Bank like the Bereaved Families Forum.

I don't know however, about Palestinian movements. I think it would be culturally more difficult for many Palestinians to present a mirror image position, because it's more of a Western liberal leftist position, and I think there is probably more societally at stake for those Palestinians holding that position. I do know some East Jerusalem Palestinians who have privately expressed this kind of position to me in both words and actions. I think it's important that we learn to speak each others' languages (both literally and metaphorically) in order to communicate better and find points of shared interest.

That's funny! I often joke that I moved here for the weather. I'm definitely a summer person... Maybe not the very hottest days, but sandals for at least 6 months of the year! Lemon and mango trees and clear blue skies...

I agree it takes a long time to get a feel for cultural differences like queuing. A lot of people for example think Israelis don't know how to queue - they do, they just have a different way of standing, and for determining who should be allowed to skip the line. When I go back to my country of origin, I do sometimes have to remember to adjust my behaviour :)

I forgot to note in my previous posts that of course everything I said above refers to the minority of immigrants to Israel who come from Western countries and have the privilege to choose to go back if they want to. I would be highly surprised if there's a significant rate of return to country of origin among Jews from Morocco, Ethiopia, the FSU etc.