I'm a Jewish Israeli, AMA

[israelilefty]

Jewish Israeli here. I grew up in a different country but have lived and worked most of my adult life here, living a fairly normal everyday life in northern Israel. When I'm not working, I enjoy cooking and hiking, I'm religiously observant (but also feminist), I'm on the left of the political spectrum, and have everyday contact with people from quite a range of different perspectives - Israeli society is incredibly diverse.

I guess I see us portrayed in a kind of monolithic way in the English-language media, so I'm taking a deep breath and posting here...

Feel free to AMA, just remember you're asking a real person, not a government or military spokesman :) I'll try to answer from my personal standpoint. as long as it's asked in good faith.

By the way, continuing the above post: I didn't move here for a romantic dream, and in the end it's a country, it has amazing features and also annoying ones like any country. But I've never regretted the choice to move or even questioned it, even after Oct 7.

Thank you for your thoughtful and enlightening posts, OP.

I have not quite coalesced what I want to say and I'm also struggling to write because of an arthritis flare but I hope that it makes some sort of sense. I've been pondering the similarities between misogyny and anti-semitism and feminism and Zionism. Both misogyny and anti-semitism are always there but sometimes not in ways that can be clearly identified. Both 'feminist' and 'zionist' can be dirty words and often women and Jews are made to apologise for who they are and qualify what they want. That's just my train of thought and how I got to where I'm going. In my exploration, I came across this:

where Schama talks about the 'asajews' (who take pains to speak out against Zionism) and this,

https://isgap.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Landes_Proud_to_be_Ashamed_Working_Paper.pdf

where Landes explores the concept of "proud to be ashamed to be a Jew". It's a long article but this is the gist - 'shame' features in many Jewish people's identities (he claims). I cite it with some trepidation because although elements of his work struck a chord other aspects did cross the line into 'Islamaphobia' (or hatred, rather than fear, of Muslims) for me. Also, of course, I cannot know if she really has tapped into something about the consciousness of some Jewish people; I simply thought that it (and Schama's observations) explained some Jewish people's reactions to the current situation.

In my thinking, I'm also aware of the socially constructed nature of identity generally and Dara Horn's People Love Dead Jews comes to mind as I think about why 'asajews' and 'proudtobeashamedjews' might exist. It's like, for me, people find the most sympathy for women (if they find any) when they have been abused rather than when they might be finding their power.

What got me thinking about this was your reply to me when you so powerfully explained the bind that you are often put in by the left where you are accepted only if you apologise for your existence (or, at least that of Israel).

In a clumsy way I'm just wondering if you see any resonance here - not in your own feelings but in that of the stances or reactions of some Jewish people (possibly mostly outside of Israel if at all).

Big question I know and apologies if it is too big or does not make sense and of course no obligation to answer.

Thanks for answering my questions OP.

I read that the Knesset approved £200m to rebuild the Gaza border towns and communities and that the printing press at Kibbutz Be’eri has reopened. At the moment, are many of the survivors still being housed in hotels? From what I have read, it has mainly fallen to Israeli civil society and mutual aid support groups to help them. I watched a talk by a 14-year-old girl from Be'eri, who said they were evacuated to Tel Aviv by bus and then just left to their own devices - fortunately they had some relatives there. Have people whose houses were burned down been provided with housing, are they able to work, do they have financial support, education, psychological support and much more?

Thank you for sharing these thoughts. I'm writing a placeholder response here as I haven't seen/read the sources you cite, and also I don't really want to derail the thread into discussions of the nature of Jewish identity and antisemitism - as you yourself mentioned, you're mainly discussing an issue which applies to Jews outside Israel. But I'll think about the issues you raised and if I have something to share that's relevant to the thread, I'll post it here. Thanks again for the input to the conversation.

Thanks again for the great thread OP. @stomachamaleon usage of the word "nut" to describe Levy just reminded me that this is something that I've seen consistently on the conflict board by Jewish posters to label any Jews that appear to hold non Zionist or even sympathetic voices towards Palestinians. My question is, is there room in Israel for dissenting voices? Or are they batted away as being lacking in faculties? I'm specifically thinking of the likes of Miko Peled, Norman Finkelstein etcetera.

@istoodonlegoagain that's specifically what I asked so I am not sure why you would find the need to ask it again.
Levy was also spoken about in the answer.

@istoodonlegoagain I also think ' do people think he is a nut'? Not that I specifically thought he was....

Sorry @stomachamaleon I didn't see the reply, although I'm more asking about how these 'dissenters' are viewed generally rather than if criticism is allowed. I've noticed you have called out certain speakers, as have others and I was very perplexed by them being categorised as being somehow mentally ill, whilst accusing others of categorising Jews into good and bad. I'm aware that most Israelis will not agree with Pelo et al, which is understandable. But my question is are they viewed as being ill rather than just holding an alternative view?

@istoodonlegoagain I have not said that at all.... you must have me confused with someone else and I think your being somewhat goady.
I would never say someone was 'mentally ill' as my son is 'mentally I'll'
That's quite a statement and one I will be reporting..

@jewishorthomum thanks a lot for the thread link, I spent a couple of days reading that 💐 Unfortunately the thread is full, I'd love to ask a few questions for Orthodox UKers if there's somewhere?

I'm really sorry if I've got you confused with other posters, the usage of 'nut' reminded me I've seen it used widely and I thought you were one of them. I too find it so derogatory 💐 Edited to say not being goady at all, just genuinely intrigued as its been a common theme.

This is a good question - and to be clear, it's not just about people whose houses were burned down. At the moment around 125,000 Israelis are displaced from their homes, both in the Gaza border towns and the northern border, and cannot return because those areas are still being shelled by Hamas (in the south) and Hezbollah (in the north) - and of course some of those people have no homes to return to, on the Gaza border obviously, but also in the north by the Lebanese border, where loss of life has been much less as people were evacuated, but there has been very serious damage to property in many places near the border - the news even reported that over half of the buildings on one of the kibbutzim on the Lebanese border have been destroyed.

Yes, they have received government support, but yes also day-to-day efforts helping them have been led by the community. Hotels across the country are still full of displaced people. There is one near where I live and in the days after Oct 7 multiple messages would come on community whatsapps every day asking people to donate specific things that were needed (to the level of "the women here dress conservatively, please can people bring long skirts"). Our local community centre turned into a donation centre, and more centrally, volunteers in Tel Aviv filled the convention centre with donations and got them to where they were needed.

In the first days everything was very chaotic and a lot of people ended up crashing at the homes of family and friends until hotel places were arranged. There were websites where you could offer spare rooms, and many people took in strangers, also estate agents convinced owners of empty homes and holiday lets to allow displaced people to stay in them, then co-ordinated that people in the community would bring them food. At this stage, people are making longer term decisions, for example renting apartments outside the border area. The kibbutzim, which are communal villages, make decisions as a group, so for example one kibbutz is being hosted by a different kibbutz in the north and has decided to stay for a year, Kibbutz Sa'ad are staying in their hotel at the Dead Sea and Kibbutz Re'im are taking over an empty apartment building in Tel Aviv. Obviously though it's complicated: many people are unable to work as they are far from their workplace. Kids are gradually being integrated into local schools. There is financial and psychological support but also very great needs.

On the latter, I have encouraged people in the past on this forum that if they want to make a difference, charitable donation to organizations addressing the many needs in Gaza and Israel are one way to help. If the Israeli communities particularly affected by 7.10 are people you would like to help, I wanted to share a really nice initiative here in Israel where students and faculty at Bezalel, Israel's top art school, produced pictures illustrating views around those communities. You can buy a digital copy of any picture for 100 shekels (£22/$28), you download it and print it yourself, and the entire donation goes to the Shoresh Fund who are dealing with the direct needs of those evacuated from those Israeli communities. I know that needs are very great in the region, but I think this is a very unique initiative as it also helps to see those places as thriving communities, not as sites of destruction. (I'm not in any way connected with this initiative, I just like it and have bought a couple of pictures myself, as have several friends)
https://wrappingmemory.bezalel.ac.il/en

Hi, I'm pleased you've enjoyed the other thread.
I don't have the time or headspace to open a new thread right now, but I'd be happy to answer questions on a thread if you'd like to start a new one. Or feel free to DM.

Thanks @istoodonlegoagain and @stomachameleon for the posts.

I think it's difficult for many people to imagine how diverse opinions and political discourse are here in Israel because often overseas, especially when Jews feel under attack/pressure, there is a certain sense of people sticking behind the same narrative.

I can't comment on the specific names you mentioned because as far as I'm aware they are primarily active in English not in Hebrew, and I've never heard them being discussed here.

But for example look at the following which are all examples of Israelis publicly voicing loud 'sympathetic voices towards Palestinians' (as you asked):

Haaretz newspaper - a highly respected left-wing Israeli newspaper, this is just a random example I found of an op-ed they published a couple of days ago: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-29/ty-article/.premium/israel-knows-the-number-of-calories-needed-for-gazans-survival-how-few-is-a-war-crime/0000018c-b4ce-d45c-a98e-bfce28130000

Breaking the Silence - an Israeli NGO which collects and published testimonies by Israeli soldiers about human rights abuses against Palestinians. https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il

Combatants for Peace - a joint Israeli and Palestinian NGO which every year on Israel's Memorial Day holds a HUGE alternative memorial event in which both Palestinian and Israeli lives are mourned, with thousands of in-person attendees and more online every year. https://cfpeace.org

Rabbis for Human Rights - promoting human rights in the occupied territories from a religious Jewish point of view: https://www.rhr.org.il/eng

All these (and many more, this is just a random few) are Israelis making voices heard. Are they a middle of the road opinion that every Israeli supports? No. But voices like these are part of the Israeli political spectrum, including with parliamentary representation, as I've mentioned above, and they represent the opinions of hundreds of thousands of Israelis, not just the odd one or two. When Israeli politicians on the right make absurd statements (eg supporting the resettlement of Palestinians to outside Gaza), including during the current war, politicians on the left will immediately attack them. When there were pro-democracy protests in 2023, at every single demonstration I attended (even a demonstration of schoolchildren!) I saw signs like "Palestinian lives matter" or "There can be no democracy with occupation (of the West Bank". Again, this wasn't the majority but it was a constant visible presence, and I personally only ever got drawn into one argument with a passing right-winger for wearing a "there can be no democracy with occupation" t-shirt. Many more people expressed support even if they weren't wearing that shirt.

So in short, these are not always popular opinions and some extremists may ramp up the rhetoric to deny them, or just get into arguments with them but most Israelis recognise them as part of the Israeli political spectrum.

What is life like for Palestinians who live and work in Israel now? You said earlier that they make up about 20% of the population outside the designated zones. Are they safe or are they experiencing heightened levels of racially motivated crime?

How many of them will have displaced family who they cannot reach?

mid there increased security at Arab schools in the area?

Those paintings are beautiful @israelilefty though a tragic reminder of the destroyed communities.

I've been reading about Standing Together (Omdim Beyachad), the Arab-Jewish social movement for peace and equality. UK Friends of Standing Together was launched last month in Parliament. Is this something that is gaining more traction in Israel?

I'm struggling to articulate an actual question here, but it feels to me like there are a lot of armchair critics of Israel engaged in heated discussions of settler-colonialism and Zionism and fewer attempts to build solidarity with people who are trying to build a movement and change things on the ground. This might mean moving away from polarisation, as articulated by two of the founders of Standing Together during their recent visit to the US.

This is an interesting article on where the 'global left' has gone wrong and how it could instead move towards building more solidarity with those engaged in movements for social and political change.

I can't speak for a community whose experience I don't share. What I have heard from Arab-Israeli colleagues and friends is primarily fear: fear of the situation itself (Arab Israelis were also victims of Hamas, and among the hostages and have been part of the relief efforts) and fear for personal safety given the tense environment, or fear that if they express their thoughts on social media they may falsely be labelled Hamas supporters. I've also heard people talk about how complicated it is to have an identity that encompasses both "sides" of the conflict. I'm not aware of a particular wave of racially motivated crime or a need for increased security at Arab schools.

There are high tensions between Israeli Jews and Arabs at the moment (I'm using the term Arab Israelis here both because not all self-define as Palestinian, and so readers won't get confused with Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza). However, at the same time, the tension is not always palpable. I was in Haifa today, which is a mixed city, and the normal mixed life was going on. As a Jewish person there was no issue for me to walk through a mainly Arab part of town (where I was visiting a business). Both Jewish and Arab parents were taking their kids to the park and the zoo, Jews and Arabs were on the same buses, working/shopping in the same shops etc, just as before 7.10. The university is plastered with two-language Hebrew and Arabic signs welcoming students back for the much-delayed first semester.

See also this very recent and interesting survey: https://en.idi.org.il/articles/52016

I would guess that few Arab Israelis have displaced family that they can't reach specifically since Oct 7. Within Israel not many Arab communities are displaced in any case. Regarding Gaza, Israelis haven't been able to enter since the disengagement in 2005 so if people have family there, they weren't able to have direct contact before Oct 7 either. I'm not saying this to minimise the trauma, just that as far as I'm aware the situation hasn't really changed from that specific perspective.

Standing Together has been going for a while and certainly is the most visible grassroots civil society organization at the moment doing practical work to decrease tensions between Jewish and Arab communities in Israel. It's still a relatively small moment but has a lot of young/student activists and I think has gained visibility during the war. Regarding armchair critics, I couldn't agree more.

Regarding Gaza, Israelis haven't been able to enter since the disengagement in 2005 so if people have family there, they weren't able to have direct contact before Oct 7 either. How awful for them. I had no idea that the separation was so harsh. Is that the same between Gaza and the West Bank? Do Israeli Arabs never talk about how this makes them feel or what it’s like for them with non Arab countrymen?
I'm not aware of a particular wave of racially motivated crime or a need for increased security at Arab schools is your press free to report within the country?

@TomeTome No problem to address your questions if they're really in good faith, but your response above feels more like an attempt to "catch me out" rather than genuine questions: in the first part you suggest that you are surprised by the most basic geopolitics following 1948, but in the second part you suggest that you're somehow party to reporting within my own country that's hidden to me.

About borders, you're being deliberately naive, right? In 1948 Palestinians who didn't end up inside the 1948 borders of the state of Israel, ended up in different countries, with hard military borders (by the way, same for Jews where part of their family came from an Arab country and part stayed). Gaza was administered by Egypt which was an enemy country. So if Arabs within Israel have family in Gaza (or Lebanon or Syria or wherever), the separation happened in 1948 not right now. From 1967 to 2005 (in the case of Gaza) or until now (in the case of the West Bank) the borders were/are more porous because of the Israeli occupation (eg Arab Israelis can travel freely within the West Bank including visiting Palestinian cities that are off limits to Jewish Israelis) but until the conflict is resolved, there is very limited mobility within the region. This is just one of the reasons we need to resolve the conflict.

About whether Arab Israelis talk about it - I don't personally know Israeli Arabs with family in Gaza because I live in the north, which is far more connected in terms of culture and patterns of migration to Lebanon and Syria. I do know people with extended family in those countries. They chat on the internet, occasionally meet in third countries etc. In the current generation, of course, most family connections are fairly distant because we're already two or three generations after the separation (just like my connections with my own family in Ukraine are distant because the separation happened before the generation of anyone in our family who is alive today).

About increased security. Of course the press is free to report. You seem to be suggesting there's something I'm unaware of. I'm aware of isolated incidents, like a Jewish mob led by extremist organization Im Tirzu, who barricaded Arab students into their dorms at Netanya Academic College in late October. This was all over the news, and an entire civilian task force, led by Standing Together, has been working tirelessly to avoid this kind of thing happening again. There have been joint Jewish-Arab patrols in mixed areas, campus organizations working to create a safe environment, including hotlines to report problems etc. So: I'm sure there have been isolated incidents. But in general, one of the few positive things during the last months is that we have not seen a large wave of violence between Jews and Arabs within Israel, like the very serious riots we saw in May 2021 which saw huge violence in both directions. I'm not going to pretend that the relationships between communities have been plain sailing and there have been plenty of incidents of actual or perceived discrimination against Arab-Israeli workers and limitations of free speech on social media. But you specifically asked about racially motivated crime and protection in schools, and I've not been aware of these being a really major issue within Israel during the present crisis.

@israelilefty nobody is trying to “gotcha”, this an ask me anything thread and while I’m sure much of what is asked is obvious to you it really isn’t from the outside.

How would I know how free your press is or how easy it is for an Arab Israeli to visit his granny in West Bank or Gaza from Israel or how Palestinians more from Gaza to West Bank.

Most countries allow free movement and don’t have areas like you do if exclusion/containment nor vast numbers of refugees in other countries. When you casually mention things like more work permits being offered to Palestinians in recent years it leads to all sorts of queries because those outside your country aren’t party to how that works or why it was set up in the first place.

i asked specifically about schools because here much was made of Jewish schools needing to heighten security and I wondered if there was similar response in your country to perceived threat and if that would be seen as reasonable or even allowed?

The vast majority of people I know do not think the killing of 22000 people inside Gaza and the devastation of the area to be in anyway a reasonable or just response to the appalling horrors of 7th October. While most people here have a skeleton of understanding of the history of the region they don’t have any understanding of what restrictions are imposed on individual ethnicities/religions/locations. That’s not because they are anti or pro anything but because we all know more about our own country and culture. For example you might know a fair bit about Christianity but still not know how Christmas is celebrated in Japan (I believe commonly with Kentucky Fried Chicken). If it sounds like I am “negative” about your country it’s probably true that I find your status quo very alien and your normal very far from what would be considered ok/just/fair/reasonable. I’d feel similar about a discussion of arranged marriage in some cultures or forced sterilisation of disabled people in others.

@Tome Tome

"it sounds like I am “negative” about your country it’s probably true that I find your status quo very alien"

What does that even mean?

Spot on.

You got it!