I’m a woman whose worked in Prisons across England, AMA

[Saynderson]

Have changed my name as my normal account has posts and comments that might make it a bit obvious who I am irl (might have over shared in the stately homes topic!)

After seeing many posts and comments over the years on MN that are very misinformed around how prisons operate I thought I’d bite the bullet and use a few hours of my afternoon off to do an AMA.

I’ve worked in prisons across England for the past 12 years. Started as a prison officer at 18, after a couple of years I went to Uni to get a degree and masters in criminal psychology, came back to the MoJ as a trainee forensic psychologist, progressed through many forensic psychologist roles, and did a stint in the educational dept leading a few projects too. I have gained a wide range of experience over the years, so AMA on anything and I can try to give a solid answer (although I won’t be able to let you know how to escape if the need ever arose! I also can’t comment on specific cases, incidents or prisons by name)

I will also be ignoring any questions solely around trans prisoners, I know MN has a reputation on this subject but I am fully aligned to our current risk assessment process for all resident moves. Any questions around this will most likely not be asked in good faith so I will not be entering into that debate as it’s pointless and will derail a thread.

I should've said they use "cons" unofficially. One of the most frequently use terms is also "lads".

Former prison chaplain here. The "mission statement " of every UK prison is to rehabilitate. I have NEVER seen a 70 - 82% success rate anywhere. Most of the programmes I have seen are based on using up time, not using time usefully.

What kind of early care/early intervention programs would help with this?

I'm also a HMP worker - male sex offenders. I have over 20 years experience of the prison service with 10 years active service and now working in a different non operational role in HMP.

There is, as usual, a lot of conflicting views on here. 20 years ago, we were calling them residents. Now we're back to prisoners. Service user has even been a term I've had to use. But, all of these differed according to where I was. So, with personality disordered prisoners, they were service users as the service was more psychology and NHS based staff. In mainstream, they were prisoners. Even in the same prisons!

We've moved from a model where sex offenders were housed with mainstream prisoners to one where they can be completely separated out, because the nature of their offences means they are often very difficult to support 'through the gate'. Plus they can be targeted by other prisoners. There is definitely a pecking order depending on the crime.

Around 50% of the total population is believed to be neurodivergent. And that's the ones we know about. That also includes those with 'mild' conditions such as dyslexia all the way through to those with severe neurodevelopment impairments and conditions such as dementia and Alzheimer's. Plus mental health concerns on top.

Ive worked with prisoners as young as 18 and as old as their 90's.

Any further insight on child abusers and how on earth we can stop them?

Of the ones I've worked closely with, many have been in the care system, have been victims themselves or are neurodivergent and do not understand societal expectations.

Education around appropriate behaviour is key - instilling boundaries about touch at an early age, empowering children to say no when they are not comfortable. Educating them that no means no. Even if, as adults, we don't like that.

There are some people who will always breech those boundaries. But I do think a lot can be reduced with better education and continuing education from a young age.

Social media and gaming are part of offending behaviour for particularly neurodivergent prisoners in my experience. Those who isolate themselves from society don't get an appropriate frame of reference and may think that what they see in games/films/porn, is acceptable.

The neurodivergent thing is interesting, because the abuser needs to be with it enough to plan, target, groom and attack the victim - usually more than once and more than one victim. Then come up with an alibi as required over the years.

He may have been employed and run a family.

So what types of ND allows all those behaviours but doesn’t get child rape is wrong? Genuine question.

I think that's a fairly black and white view of a very grey area. There are a multitude of factors that come into play when considering why someone does something.

I don't think the PP was excusing the behaviour of those as ND by virtue they didn't know what they were doing is wrong. Many know what they did is wrong but doesn't stop them. Many may say it was wrong as they know that's what societal norms expect of them but deep down believe it's perfectly ok. Those with ND are not unable, in fact many excel in areas of their life. This may lend itself to offending. It may also impact on their relationships, their emotional congruence with children for example, their isolation/loneliness. I could go on...

Thanks. I guess I was asking a rather vague question re specifics, and you’ve pointed out how various they are.

Everyone wants clarity on why people do things, don’t they. It’s all just grey, as you say.

When you say ND, which types are most prevalent in the cases you’ve come across?

Neurodivergence is often equated with lack of intelligence. And this really isn't the case for the majority. With autistic individuals as an example, many are younger in their thinking than their chronological age but academically can be worlds ahead. But because they are an adult, they may get convicted of sexual offences of grooming through online gaming. They genuinely do not see it as grooming. They see it as them having a conversation with someone at the same level as them in social skills. Because they are physically older they have the physical needs and responses of an adult, which can lead to some very inappropriate conversation and even inappropriate meetings between adult and child. If they had better education in social skills from a young age upwards, and maybe parents who took an interest in their isolating or gaming habits, they might not have made the choices which led to their conviction. But services for this are few and far between so, the system has let them down.

Equally, there are those who know exactly what they are doing and that it's wrong. But the drive, the need, is too great for them to ignore, they don't have strategies to manage that and so they manipulate and condition an impressionable young person into believing that their behaviour is ok. No different to people who go out specifically with the aim of picking up a one night stand. The difference is, their person of choice happens to be a young child.

I will never excuse offending behaviour. People have made a choice to do that. But I can see that sometimes there are circumstances in which people end up with an offence because their neurodivergence puts their thinking in a different place to that of someone without it. My job is to support rehabilitation and reduce offending behaviour by sharing skills and strategies to change patterns of behaviour.

How are prisoners with ASD dealt with, when they may have meltdowns due to the noise and chaos of of the prison environment? Also bullying due to being perceived as "different".

If a well mannered person comes in, who happens to have ASD, and is then constantly provoked into meltdowns and lashing out... are they doomed to forever stay incarcerated?

Why do you think there is no effective mechanism for moving prisoners who are obviously acutely mentally ill into hospital care? What powers do prisons have in these cases? I have a relative in prison who has intense paranoid delusions of many years duration. She believes the staff are regularly poisoning her food, as part of a nationwide conspiracy. She is terrified. She stays in her cell all day. No attempt has been made to section her or provide her with mental health support. Sorry this is a bit of a rant, it isn't aimed at you at all, but I wondered whether you might be able to shed any light on why it is this way.

@Saynderson

How do you ensure manage your mental 🤔 emotional health well being working for prisons services having to deal with 😩 stressful situations?

Do you feel you get enough support and training to prepare you for whatever prison life "throws at you" various kinds of situations you could encounter potentially?

Do you find your colleagues supportive enough to each other or is their quite often or occasionally at times,power plays mind games ect going on there too?

@Saynderson

How has working for the prison services changed for the years if any changes have occurred and how has that impacted prison mates?

How do you feel about these kinds of changes ?

If you were in a position of power to do so?.

what be the kinds of changes at your workplace the prison service,?

would you potentially like to see implemented then?