I’m a woman whose worked in Prisons across England, AMA

[Saynderson]

Have changed my name as my normal account has posts and comments that might make it a bit obvious who I am irl (might have over shared in the stately homes topic!)

After seeing many posts and comments over the years on MN that are very misinformed around how prisons operate I thought I’d bite the bullet and use a few hours of my afternoon off to do an AMA.

I’ve worked in prisons across England for the past 12 years. Started as a prison officer at 18, after a couple of years I went to Uni to get a degree and masters in criminal psychology, came back to the MoJ as a trainee forensic psychologist, progressed through many forensic psychologist roles, and did a stint in the educational dept leading a few projects too. I have gained a wide range of experience over the years, so AMA on anything and I can try to give a solid answer (although I won’t be able to let you know how to escape if the need ever arose! I also can’t comment on specific cases, incidents or prisons by name)

I will also be ignoring any questions solely around trans prisoners, I know MN has a reputation on this subject but I am fully aligned to our current risk assessment process for all resident moves. Any questions around this will most likely not be asked in good faith so I will not be entering into that debate as it’s pointless and will derail a thread.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

trigger warning - sexual assault

for me the scariest thing was witnessing a gang retaliation and being somewhat powerless to stop it. A man was set upon by 5 others, and sexually assaulted with a piece of catering equipment.

when I hold sessions it’s just me and a number of residents, that day the escort who is usually around outside of my room was called away for an emergency and that’s when the attack happened.

That was the only time I’ve ever questioned my work and whether I can continue

@15PiecesOfFlair

I am very much in the nature camp. I’ve not met one single person who if something was different about their past wouldn’t be sat with me in prison.

@15PiecesOfFlair sorry didn’t answer your second question.

It’s a number that varies wildly based on where someone works, in some prisons I don’t know any officers who haven’t been harmed at some point. In others it’s much, much rarer.

@Hanlonsamazer i’m so sorry to hear of your experience especially being one of the actually not guilty ones. Prison is a scary place even for hardened criminals.

Privacy does vary based on location. Also people are sneaky as hell. It is more often female staff with male residents, so sexual contact can often be a grab of a boob here, and a quick finger there (sorry to be crude)

@WhatsInStoreFor2024 i can’t be specific (as then it would be identifying!) but I am back in forensic psychology at a more snr level.

I made this move after having my second child, but am contemplating taking a step down to get closer to the action again, as I miss it (never thought I would but then having experienced life a bit further out from the thick of it, it gets a bit lonely)

Interesting (and I'm bearing in mind your previous post where you said you work with serious crimes). I remember my sister listening to some radio show with people in similar roles being interviewed, who said the same thing.

@15PiecesOfFlair i meant to say nurture camp, damn autocorrect!

Have you ever met anyone who was in there who you truly believed was innocent?

@ZeroFucksGivenToday no, only because by the nature of my work it’s unlikely.

I work closely with those with long sentences who are willing to do a program.

I meet many others but do not ask specifics around their case as it’s not really appropriate in the settings I meet them in.

So I might have met a few that were genuinely innocent, heck I might have met loads. But I don’t have the information on them to make those assertions.

Do prisoners all say they’re innocent? That’s a common line on tv shows and films. I’m guessing not but just curious to what amount do.

@ThomasinaLivesHere one of the requirements of the programs is they have to accept guilt. As you can’t work on a problem you don’t think exists. At the very least they need to accept what they did, even if they don’t think it’s a crime (for example many of the sexual offenders I work with accept they had sex with their victim, but don’t see it as a crime. So they need to at least accept they did the action they were imprisoned for, even if they don’t think doing it makes them guilty)

When walking around generally you can hear people discussing their innocence with other staff members or those they live alongside though.

Ha! Well, good to know! I think the radio people were more nuanced than I suggested!

@15PiecesOfFlair in my entire working life there was one young man who challenged my belief, until I had some more info around his childhood which then brought me right back to the nurture camp.

Seems like a very difficult job. I know nothing at all about prisons, but everything I have ever read makes them seem like a brutal place.

Do you think there will be ever be a time when we can figure out another method of punishment, or is that simply too naive, given the gravity of some crimes?

Have you ever felt hatred towards a prisoner?

How much effort does it take to talk yourself out of the ‘difficult’ feelings towards prisoners?

@Sususudio prisons aren’t designed to punish. So we don’t need to find another way

ideally money would be ploughed into early care to prevent people ending up committing crimes

It's unusual you call them "residents". I've worked in male prisons for nearly two decades and that has never been a term either used officially or colloquially.

Also you shouldn't have been prisoner facing when pregnant- the standard risk assessment procedure is to remove staff from prisoner contact when pregnant.

I would definitely agree with this I seen a lot of of this during the 90,s when I was in a secure training centre then onto young offenders.back then the female staff would try and mother us because in their eyes we were just young boys and looking back now we were but sometimes both the men and the female staff overstep those boundaries.

Luckily I stayed out of trouble so didn't experience adult prisons but your answers to the questions have been very insightful so thank you.

I currently work in a men's prison and we use the term 'residents'

Hi op
Interesting thread, thank you

What do you and your colleagues think are the most important changes that need to be made to the criminal justice system and prisons?

Thanks for the thread OP, interesting work!

Can I ask your views on the Probation Service? Do you think it's effective? Would you have any suggestions for it to better function?

And also do you think therapeutic communities should be a model for a lot more prisons?

What are your thoughts on prison abolition?

@WhatsInStoreFor2024 really? I've worked in different prisons and visited different ones but in a specific part of the country. Terms have varied but we're now back to "prisoners". Older staff use "cons". Personally I prefer to just use "men" (obviously in adult male establishments).