AMA with Dr Chris van Tulleken, expert on Ultra-Processed Food and award-winning broadcaster

[NicolaDMumsnet]

Hi everyone,

We’re pleased to announce that award-winning broadcaster, author and practicing NHS doctor Chris van Tulleken will be doing an AMA this evening. Following his BBC One documentary ‘What Are We Feeding Our Kids?’ and the chart-topping podcast ‘A Thorough Examination – Addicted to Food’, Chris has become the UK’s go-to expert on Ultra-Processed Food (UPF). In his most recent book ‘Ultra-Processed People’ Chris marshals the latest evidence to reveal what UPF is really doing to our bodies and the planet.

Ultra-Processed People
‘Drawing on his own experiment of eating an 80% UPF diet for one month, Chris explores the invention of UPF and its impact on our health and weight – from altering metabolism and appetite, to an increased risk of serious health problems like cardiovascular disease and dementia. He shows that almost all our staple foods are ultra- processed – bread, cereal, biscuits, desserts, dairy products and condiments; explains why exercise and willpower cannot prevent obesity and ill health due to UPF; and provides solutions for individuals, policy makers and the food industry.’

Please post your questions below. Chris will be answering questions this evening.

As always, please remember our guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your great questions so far. Unfortunately Chris is unable to make it tonight as his filming ran over. So we are going to close the thread for now for further questions and will reschedule with Chris and re-open it at a later date so he can answer all your questions.

Thanks,
MNHQ.

This is me, although I'm not your daughter! This has been a real awakener to all of the crap I have eaten, which may have been contributing to my Crohns! I am 2 weeks in, and today my 9 year old was reading ingredients in Tesco, and heard to say 'yuk that's got emulsifiers in'

Hello, I'm Dr Chris van Tulleken. Thank you for all your questions so far and I'm looking forward to answering as many as possible now!

I don't ban my kids from any UPF - it's a part of childhood, it's what their friends eat and you need to have food in common with the people around you. We don't have much in the house though and whilst they're eating it i tell them it's bad for them!

Is this happening now???

Here is my question again :)

Hello Dr van Tulleken,

This might be outside the remit of your book but I'd be really interested to hear your opinion on the effect of UP foods on our endocrine systems and in particular auto immunity. I know year on year diagnoses of Type 1 diabetes are increasing (and other autoimmune diseases) but no one seems to be able to pin point why (or don't want to point the finger too vigorously).

My own pet theory is artificial sweeteners could be to blame as I've read they can be endocrine disruptors and impact gut health (and links to ulcerative colitis) but I'd be really interested to hear if you have an opinion of this.

I saw/heard a programme you did where you had before and after blood tests and I seem to remember your liver enzymes were disrupted after eating UPF. Do you think UPF could be responsible for inflammation and then increased auto immunity in the population?

Sorry if you've covered this in your new book - my dad has the family copy and he hasn't passed it on yet!!

Thank you :)

I'm working with scientists and policy makers from lots of countries via UNICEF and the WHO. We are trying to get labelling for UPF front of pack - this is happening a lot in South and Central America already - emulsifiers will be used in the definition eventually I believe. Though what will happen first is the companies will likely switch away from the mopst harmful as public demand gets ahead of policy which the food industry slow down with lawsuits

Hello Dr Chris!

First off - our kids love Op Ouch.

My question is: how much of what we eat is the responsibility of the individual and how much should come from government and industry?

Do you believe the current government are serious about tackling obesity and related illnesses to deliver long term change and a healthy population?

All the best

Humans have been grinding flour and refining sugar for hundreds/thousands of years. Whilst these ingredients don't have much nutritional value in the context of home made bread the data show that they are healthy - basically if you're cooking at home you are 99% of the way there. Sugar is mainly harmful in the context of UPF where it comes in formualtions that stick to teeth (sweets lollies) or in formulations that drive excess consumption (almost all UPF!)

The best working definition is anything with at least one ingredient that you typically do not find in a domestic kitchen is Ultra-Processed Food. In terms of it being about ingredients or processing, that one ingredient that is not usually found in a domestic kitchen tells you that industrial processes or manufacturing will have been used to make the food. A lot of homemade food contains more than 5 ingredients so I personally don't find that a useful definition. I've just had a lunch of salad that had about 15 ingredients but mainly vegetables, beans so that wouldn't be UPF.

Ooh hello Dr Chris. I really like your work, and the respectful and non-stigmatising way you talk about weight problems.

I'm really interested in social inequalities and obesity, and how much harder it is to adopt a healthy lifestyle if you're cash-poor, time-poor, struggling with low self esteem, don't have the resources for exercise etc. What do you think the govt and the NHS should be doing instead/as well as the usual lifestyle advice?

It is a nightmare - it particularly annoys me when farms and zoos which claim to be promoting a regard for the environment only sell UPF full of palm oil and intensively farmed animals.
My kids get quite a lot of garbage when we go out for the day but we try to pack lunch so they do also eat real food. And they don't ever get fizzy drinks.

Also - glad I could help re Pringles.

First off, love snot and farts to your kids.

Second, when it comes to policy individual responsibility should have no place in the discussion. We know that when people have freedom and choice - they choose healthy good food. Broadly, people with loads of money and resources do not each much UPF. Policy is desperately needed to increase the availability and affordability of real food and to limit the marketing of UPF. For people to be responsible for what they eat, they need to have real choice. At the moment people with low incomes are only able to afford UPF - how can we accuse them of not being responsible about what they eat when the structure of the food system forces them to eat UPF. Thirdly, I won't speak about individual political parties but there has been no commitment by any party to do anything meaningful to reduce diet related disease over the last 4 decades.

Hi I loved your book and I’m trying to improve our diets. I’ve cut out most UPF but meeting resistance from my 11 year old. She loves your kids shows and exhibits at Manchester S&I is there any chance of you doing an operation ouch on this topic or even the benefits of eating less UPF as I worry my word doesn’t count for much. She’s obviously able to choose her own food whilst at school but it seems to be mainly pizza and pasta. She bins the food I send.

I am pretty fastidious mainly because after eating the book I don't want to eat it. I hear you on stock cubes - I think you can buy non-UPF ones but when I make gravy now I do it the old fashioned way with the meat juices and flour or I buy stock. I don't make bread at home but there are yeasts with no emulsifiers - I would say that FWIW it is not possible to make UPF at home and a bit of the emulsifier won't be too bad but it is frustrating! https://www.shipton-mill.com/products/dried-organic-active-instant-yeast-500g - I think this is ok?

Thanks for your question and glad you are enjoying the book! I just answered another question about stock cubes and yeast emulsifiers from someone who sounds like they are feeling the same as you. It sounds like you are being very fastidious about UPF and in small amounts these tiny amounts are unlikely to do any harm but it is infuriating that it is increasingly hard to buy food that is not in some way contaminated. Here is my answer to the other question:

I hear you on stock cubes - I think you can buy non-UPF ones but when I make gravy now I do it the old fashioned way with the meat juices and flour or I buy stock. I don't make bread at home but there are yeasts with no emulsifiers - I would say that FWIW it is not possible to make UPF at home and a bit of the emulsifier won't be too bad but it is frustrating! https://www.shipton-mill.com/products/dried-organic-active-instant-yeast-500g - I think this is ok?

Some UPFs are essential food. I was a formula baby and my kids have both been fed formula and breastmilk. All formula is made to the same standard and I don't ever get involved in telling anyone how to feed their child. My mum made the best decision for her, and for me and my brothers.
My interest is in limiting the harmful effects of the formula industry on infants however they are fed. At the moment the formula industry uses a wide range of harmful practices which are harmful for all infants. I would like to see maximum pricing and much more strict regulations on how they are able to fund healthcare education.
New parents should seek independent advice (ie totally separate from industry) on how they should feed their kids. Midwives and health visitors are usually great. UNICEF and First Steps Nutrition are great resources - https://www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/

Hello Dr Chris,

I really appreciated your book - it was such an eye opener. With the increase in the cost of living recently is there any particular cookbook or chef that you would recommend to help anyone withdrawing from UPF foods but who might not have the resources or knowledge to cook from scratch? Thank you,

Thanks for bringing this up. If you love the gluten free bread, you should eat it and not worry about it. If you are worried about negative health effects, you have to balance that with the desire for the bread. If you are baking at home, you can't ultra-process what you are making. Home baked goods are basically a sign of good health and nourishment (although if you are eating your own chocolate brownies for 3 meals a day you might consider broadening out the diet!). So using gf flour in your home baking is absolutely fine. In terms of the gf supermarket bread, you don't need to be abstinent from UPF, it is about changing your diet so that most of your food is home cooked or minimally processed.

Xanthan gum is not a no-no - but it is a sign of a product being Ultra Processed and there is some early work showing it affects the microbiome though it's not known if that's actually harmful.
If you love the bread and you're not struggling with any other diet related disease then rememebr I'm not suggesting that most people need to be abstinent - cutting down will work well. And if your only UPF is gluten free bread don't beat yourself up.
It would bother me if I was coeliac - so I'd switch to a traditional gluten free carb replacement or make my own without Xanthan (not trivial and I confess I have not tried to do this!)

1. I think the additives are a small part of the problem at least in Europe and the UK where they are fairly tightly regulated. The additives for which there is the most evidence are the sweeteners and emulsifiers. They are the ones I would try hardest to reduce.
2. I think the other specifics which are a problem are softness, energy density, lack of phytonutrients, flavour enhancement.
3. the main problem is that the products are engineered in a lot of ways to drive excess consumption.
4. I think if people find a product really is useful then go for it. I used to do ultra marathons fuel by pork pies. Many top athletes do find that real food is the best fuel. they might find being switched to eg milk bananas would also be good - significant placebo effects with all this so the advcie you aurround it with may affect the results!
5. Very intense exercise does help with weight loss and top athletes DO need more calories. But the type of exercise that MOST of us do (a couple of gentle hours per week) doesn't need extra fuel typically.

Sounds like you're doing a great job!

Hi Chris,

What is your view on Weetabix (plain ones) or supermarket equivalent? How bad is malted barley extract they contain?

Also another question on seeds oils. The highly refined ones are ultra processed, but what about the cold pressed ones? In particular what do you think of cold pressed rapeseed oil? 

Last question is about school meals. I am going to ask the caterer at my children's school for a list of ingredients but I expect to be quite a bit of UPF. Are there any data on UPF in school meals and is there anything we can do as parents to push to improve these meals?


And finally thanks to you and your brother for raising awareness on this!

Thanks very much and so happy to hear she loves Operation Ouch. In terms or resistance, my tip would be limiting the amount of UPF in the house as it can be hard for kids to avoid it at school. Re operation ouch - we are approaching this with great care and telling kids not to eat UPF when their parents may not be able to afford otherwise feels very unfair. We do have an increasing emphasis on good nutrition on the show though. You will notice Dr Xand eats very different snacks in the lab then he did 10 years ago!

Anything by Allegra McEvedy. She's a friend and used to babysit me!

You don't have a problem with willpower. You have a problem that you live in the UK in 2023 and are surrounded by cheap addictive food.
Don't beat yourself up. If you don't live with excess weight then a bakery cookie sounds fine.
I would stop forbidding this stuff. Go on a week long UPF diet and read all your packs (and my book if you have it!) and by the end of the week you may not be able to eat it any more.
It is addictive so you may find abstinence helpful. It sounds like you're on a journey and I suspect there will come a day where you make a decision about what YOU really want. Sending much love. C