Ask a Muslim anything

[Lesschubtolove]

Another thread on a Quran being kicked about has brought up some pretty ugly stereotypes on Muslims and a perception that we all want blasphemy laws and death threats are part of our religion and that a Quran only matters in Arabic. None are true but it dawned on me actually that there are a lot of mistruths and Misconceptions about what Muslims believe, think or do.

Well ask away… the questions you maybe wanted to know but thought you might get in trouble for or would be frowned upon

sigh

Fundamentally though if your learning about Islam you learn that within its teachings are that men have more rights than women, so men and women are not equal. That it is not very tolerant as a religion ..using the example that being gay is a sin.

If you go learn about other religions you find some are like this too and others that aren't.

Some religions are more tolerant and others aren't

I can see how you’d think that way, but the essence is that men and women are equal but not the same and men have a degree of responsibility over women, hence the law around inheritance and how women don’t have to provide for their family, that sole responsibility falls on the males shoulders as do all her expenses.

but the patriarchy has really exploited this but I don’t think it is Islam’s true essence

Its not me thinking this way its what your telling me. Look at that example alone that is clearly showing men and women are not equal. The other example about divorce again its clear women don't have equal rights that men do about it.

There are other regions out there that are very clear on things like equality.

I'm not saying this to make out Islam is inferior as a religion. Its just a factual comparison to other religions and what their core teachings are

I disagree that inequality is baked right in but you’re entitled to your opinion

When you telling us being gay is a sin that fight there is inequality. How can you say that isnt baked in.

I was referring to equality of the sexes. To be clear I’ve not said I think being gay is a sin, just that the majority consensus of the scholars is that it is, much like CoE, Catholic Church and many other denominations of Christianity

As a Christian I'm impressed by your detailed knowledge and ability to reason with others in such a sure and knowledgeable way. Puts me to shame.

Do you often find you have to defend your faith nowadays? I often do. I find people think it's okay to slightly rubbish my faith, treat me as a bit of a historical oddity. People think fondly of when their grandparents used to go to church but think I'm weird for doing the same. Or think I'm out to convert them. I'm not a threat to anyone, I'm just doing my thing. But I do sometimes feel that people feel threatened.

Do you find people take particular parts of your faith out of context and use them as a way to criticise? I've seen a bit of that I think on this thread.

I often feel that many of Christianity's problems (the Roman Catholic Church is maybe the best example of that) are caused by the structures and rules humans have put in place over the centuries, basically so some of them can have power and money. My faith is based on a belief in God and on my relationship with God, and the idea that God is love, that's the most important thing. The rules Pope XYZ put in place in 500ad or whatever are not my faith. They're manmade rules. Sometimes I think people get these two mixed up.

I also believe that religion moves with the times and the rule book (Bible) as written at the time doesn't apply literally any more. There are rules in the Old Testament about not cooking young goats in their mothers' milk, rules about not wearing clothes made of two kinds of material. They're just not relevant any more. Polyester cotton?

And ultimately Jesus says we should love everyone. He would stand by that today, He wouldn't judge, His message would fit the times.

I wonder if that's different in Islam because of the way the Quran came to be handed down? Is there less room for interpretation / flexibility in the rules?

Or do people think that Christians like me are cheating a bit?

But you did write this

5)mainstream Islam, doesn’t accept homosexuality. The desire is viewed as a test from Allah, the act is a sin. These issues aren’t for me to worry about though, I’m not a Muslim ruler

So a Muslim being gay ergo acting on their desire is a sin.

Yes, mainstream Islam = scholarly consensus it’s the same, that’s how Islamic thought develops through scholarly consensus based on quran, and hadith, sunnah, and in light of the 4 main Sunni schools of thought

Yes, yes so much yes on the first two points.

i think western Christianity has very much moved away from scriptural literalism and the belief that the bible is direct revelation, where as it’s not so much that the Quran should be taken literally, in fact there are many places where it’s meaning is quite confusing and it’s clear it isn’t meant to be literal (thus the need to hadith and sunnah and debate to ascertain the meaning) but it is a tenant for faith pretty much that the Quran is the direct and unaltered revelation of God (it’s quite mind blowing when viewed in context of the oldest quran fragments found and it is still the same). You do have Muslims that don’t believe in hadith or cast aspersions onto their validity, especially in light of the fact that Bukhari (the first collector and deemed the most authentic) started collecting 200 years after the prophets death.

i think the rigidity of present day Islam has a lot to do with post colonialism and the formation of Saudi, the ottomans were quite progressive and there were many many great scholars of Islam. At times it feels as though we have forgotten our roots.

i think some layman Muslims don’t really understand Christianity so they might think that people pick and chose, which is a little offensive I think. The Islamic opinion is that there are wonderful parts to Judaism and Christianity and then parts that have been changed and have deviated from the truth because of man, but we’re all part of almost the same family if you will ahul kitab (people of the book)

Me again waves

What is Heaven like for a Muslim?

I have this simplistic idea of Christian Heaven as full of the people who have gone before. When I die my grandparents will be waiting for me and it will all be okay. And Jesus will be there but He'll probably be quite busy.

Part of me knows that rationally this is not true. People are not up there waiting for me. We die and that's that.

But another part of me believes with absolute certainty in an afterlife with God and with those I love and endless peace and happiness.

My last grandparents died recently and I like to think that she's in Heaven with her brothers and sisters and her mum and dad. She talked about them so much. I picture them waiting for her.

I wouldn't admit to that much in real life, people really would think I was weird.

Hey :)

it’s meant to be a place of eternal peace, no longing for anything, no loss, anything your heart desires, food and drink in abundance and wine that won’t give you a hangover. You’ll be with all your loved ones and if you don’t see them, you can ask allah to bring them to paradise and he will for you. I’m not sure about children, but all adults will be at their prime again, 33. There are 7 heavens in Islam and the prophets abide there and then Allah is above the 7th heaven (there is a big debate as whether he is on the throne or above the throne, so I won’t go into that too much, because I don’t want to say the wrong thing).

it’s a bit different islamically because we don’t believe we go to heaven until Allah physically will bring us back body and soul on the day of judgement. After death we are squeezed in the grave, and tested as to what we believe and shown glimpses of what is to come.

Orthodox Jew here. Gentl(ish) interfaith derail.

People (including other Jews) rubbishing my faith? Treating me as a historical oddity? Oh yeah, I definitely hear you.

People taking part of my faith out of context and using that to criticise? Oh yes.

I do hear where you are coming from. Really. Especially as I think people are much more hands-off or respectful around 'minority' faiths than Christianity, lest they be seen as bigots or 'punching down'.

But then, with deep irony and stunning lack of self awareness, I read this:

I also believe that religion moves with the times and the rule book (Bible) as written at the time doesn't apply literally any more. There are rules in the Old Testament about not cooking young goats in their mothers' milk, rules about not wearing clothes made of two kinds of material. They're just not relevant any more. Polyester cotton?

Again, Orthodox Jew here. You're talking about basar v'chalav (meat and milk mixtures) and shatnez (mixed fibres - specifically wool and linen, your polyester cotton mix is not a problem). My community, and some other Jews, still keep these today. They are very much relevant. It's the reason I shun cheeseburgers, have two separate sets of kitchen equipment for everything, and take my new woollens/wool mix clothes to someone to check before I wear them.

And while you have pulled these out of context to make a point, both rules fit into a wider Jewish philosophy/ethical approach which makes a lot more sense in the round. To summarise 'on one foot' - they teach the value of recognising and maintaining boundaries and distinctions between certain things. And, in many cases, of creating holiness through those boundaries. For example, the only person who is actually allowed - nay, commanded - to wear a garment of mixed wool and linen? The High Priest in the Biblical Temple. Why? Some say as a form of repair for the first murder in the Bible - Cain (shepherd) killing Abel (farmer).

I'm going to assume some ignorance on your part here. I know the attitude your words are based on is baked into Christian theology, as part of the whole supersessionist theory. I even see it in ex-Christians wanting to convert to Judaism, who have positive intentions but struggle at first to get their heads around the fact that Jews are not frozen in aspic since Torah ('Old Testament') times. And that we have our own evolving body of Torah-based law which does not purely consist of what is written in the Old Testament.

In this respect, Orthodox Judaism as-lived is much closer to Islam - I have way more in common with my Muslim sisters than my Christian ones, hence the slightly nerdy questions upthread about ritual purity washing techniques.

However, even giving you the benefit of the doubt, I've heard this attitude too many times from practising Christians to let it go. I can't control how you think or speak in your own circles. It's your theology, at the end of the day. But if you are going to engage in interfaith dialogue in a public forum, please be a little self-aware of what you are saying and how this impacts on other faiths?

OP - sorry for the derail. Thank you for all your work on this thread. I'm not sure I'd have the time, mental energy or patience to do what you are doing.

PS If I don't reply anytime soon, it's because it's nearly Shabbat. I'll be completely offline for over 25 hours. Which might seem old-fashioned to some, but reframe it as a '25-hour digital detox' and it's suddenly surprisingly relevant.

PSPS If this sounds harsh, I freely admit some nerves were touched. For that, I'm sorry. But I still think it needed to be said.

@mirah2

I stand by the paragraph you quoted in bold, I believe religion moves with the times, I believe the Old Testament doesn't need to be taken literally, I believe God doesn't care if I eat a cheeseburger.

You believe differently, that's fine by me.

I'll take my deep irony, stunning lack of self awareness and some ignorance elsewhere now.

Sorry for upsetting your thread op, it's been interesting.

Fascinating thread, thank you OP, and @mirah2 please start a thread if you feel inclined, I watch a few orthodox jewish women you tubers and I'm fascinated. They are all American though and it would be great to hear perspective from someone in the UK.

Thanks for commenting @mirah2, I always say that there are so many commonalities between Judaism and Islam but I think sometimes Orthodox Jews get forgotten about and are viewed as a ‘minority’. I love learning about Orthodox Judaism, i follow a few people on Instagram, a lovely orthodox couple from Australia and another couple, Moses and zippora from the states. I love finding out the similarities.

thank you for pointing out supersessionism as well, in the history of the Abrahamic faiths it’s just so important, so much history gets forgotten about in this new found Jewish Christian alliance, and it erases actually a lot of Jewish Muslim history.

the point you made about the digital detox is just a ruddy good one as well, how many of us actually need that! It’s quite similar to have I feel about the daily prayers, that there’s something almost therapeutic to take 5 mins out of the daily grind 5 times a day and just to yourself and God and think about what you have to be grateful for.

Do you find that people are almost antagonistic of you and your beliefs, like that comment on here about do we actually do anything to help communities without water, it’s not good enough to think about it… purposely antagonistic.

good shahbas :) (I think that’s right, sorry if not)

Can I ask if it is difficult for young Muslim women when they are in a culture where young women drink alcohol, where relatively revealing clothing, have boyfriends etc.?

I was thinking about universities where Muslim women tended to form relationships/live with other Muslims as I think there was a close cultural bond.

I think this is entirely understandable but can it lead to insularity in some respects? (The same argument would apply to the devout of other faiths in a secular permissive society)

*@supravit

Given what OP has posted about Islamic attitudes to women and gay people I'm not surprised they're a bit worried.*

But that wasn't what @dontstereotype mentioned. They asked why people were concerned about radicalisation and extremism.

I think like you said for any person of practicing faith it can be challenging, Muslim men and women but I guess Muslim women are more visually different a lot of the time.

i think going to halls of residence might be really really hard, in fact I don’t think I could do it, not because I’d be super judgmental or anything but because I’d feel so different.

i guess in general you form bonds with people you have things in common with right, so if you go to isoc and you meet someone you hit it off with you become friends, likewise film club, french club or whatever.

i think it can be quite hard in general at times especially for Muslim women, one thing that comes to my mind is career progression and networking, so many networking event involve alcohol and nights out, even x mas parties and by not going you are definitely hindered and if you go (which technically you shouldn’t) then you’re the odd ball standing in the corner with a Diet Coke, most likely alone because it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable

Plenty of people of all faiths dont drink and still go out for work events and have a good time and are not stuck in a corner like an oddball.

Ok, well that’s how I’ve felt at work x mas parties, particularly when I was younger and didn’t wear the headscarf, a lot of people would ask me why I wasn’t drinking or dancing. It wasn’t pleasant and definitely put me on the outside, especially as it’s widely considered impermissible being around alcohol, music and dancing. I was very much made aware by a few managers that my not drinking made people uncomfortable and would make it difficult to succeed in my role. In the end I left the job.

it’s coming across as if you want to find fault with a lot of my experiences? A poster asked a question and I answered.

@User339406 Way to miss the point.

You believe what you want to believe. But it would be nice not to trash another very closely related religion in a public interfaith discussion, especially while complaining about others doing the same to yours. Who knows, you might have even gotten a better insight into the question you were asking about Islam.

Oh, and while I remember Cain was the farmer and Abel the shepherd, obviously. Serves me right for getting ranty on a Friday afternoon!

Best

@Lesschubtolove close enough, thanks! Back now.

On Mumsnet - I haven't seen much antagonism directed just against religious Jews, at least not where I hang out. We tend to get lumped in with the Abrahamic religions. But that could also be because we are less visible and people forget about us.

In the real world - hard to tell. Most of my life is in the Jewish community. I work with non-Jews, but when religious practise comes up it's not antagonistic (thankfully), more confused. I avoid Middle East politics full stop. I also get annoyed about media reporting which doesn't distinguish between different groups of Orthodox Jews (or even Jews full stop), but that hasn't really affected me in real life.

I find a lot of assumptions/low-level antagonism actually comes from other Jews who are less observant or belong to other streams of Judaism. With the less observant Jews, I don't know if it's a guilt complex or just thinking that I am backward, less integrated and making them 'look bad' by being religious. I don't know if the same thing exists with UK Muslims?

@imlateasusual thanks! Yes, there is some good content by Americans but like you said it doesn't speak as well to a UK audience.

I have a really busy couple of months coming up. Maybe when things are quieter I can think about a thread.

I'm not finding fault but you say you felt like that, that's you own thoughts and reality might have been different. Maybe manager did that because you were sulking in the corner which would make other ppl feel weird.