I live in Bangkok AMA

[Eledamorena]

Just that. I've lived here nearly 4 years and have 3 children. Ask away, if you're interested!

[quote Eledamorena]@biscuitlover09876 you're right, disrespecting the king is a big deal here. If you drop money on the floor, you're not supposed to step on it to stop it blowing away, as that would be stepping on the King's face! The royal anthem is played publicly twice a day and everyone is supposed to stand still for this. Most schools have a raising the flag ceremony daily. You stand at the cinema before a film begins for the national anthem, too.

There are strict laws preventing people speaking ill of the royal family and you can go to prison for breaking these laws. This extends to the press, too. The Thai people genuinely loved the previous king, he is still considered something of a hero and his picture is still everywhere. Public buildings, schools, malls, small shops, taxis etc and many private homes have pictures of either the current king or the old one.

The current king is controversial but you can't say that out loud. You can Google him for some interesting stories though!!

We also have strict defamation/libel laws so you have to be careful on social media. You can't leave bad reviews for things as you risk legal action for doing so.[/quote]
Wow that is intense!

What are the schools like and what is it like as a teacher?

@biscuitlover09876 the king stuff doesn't really impact on us, we just know not to talk politics at all as we don't want to offend people. As a foreigner, that's true in lots of countries! There are certainly lots of foreigners here who slate the country, the people, the bar girls, the government etc, but to me it feels like hypocrisy and entitlement. You shouldn't choose to live in a foreign country and then moan constantly, expect everything to be like 'back home' etc. I often think those people are bitter and cynical and should go elsewhere! Why live here if you hate it so much?! I think maybe they just like complaining

The international schools vary greatly as there are LOADS of them here, with new ones still opening. Some are British 'brands' like Harrow, Brighton, Rugby, and newly opened King's College and Wellington. A few are part of international school groups, like chains. And then lots of other more independent ones, most for profit but a few non-profit. Generally speaking in the international teaching world, non-profits are the best to work at (but that is a generalisation!) We have lots of British, IB, and American curriculum schools but also Australian, Singaporean, French, Swiss, Japanese etc.

Some schools are not great but most are very good, though not always in comparison to a private school in the UK. Most have very good facilities and some are amazing! There is a new school near me called Verso, which is a high-tech, modern place that claims to have thrown out traditional teaching methods and calls teachers something else like 'learning designers' or something like that! I believe teachers there earn ridiculous salaries, like £5k a month (presumably plus housing allowance, flights etc). I thought about applying but don't think I would have a clue what to do with myself there!!

The kids are generally great. Most schools claim to have more foreigners than they really do, and often count mixed kids as foreign to massage their numbers, even if they are culturally and linguistically Thai. Big nationalities in Bangkok include Japanese, Korean, Chinese as well as a mix of European, Australian etc. A few from various African countries and India. There are lots of Thai Indians though so Indian students are often locals, if that makes sense. At my school I find the kids quite apathetic and certainly the rich Thai kids can be very spoilt, whereas the foreigners are more likely to be UN, diplomatic, or corporate kids who are obviously comfortable but not necessarily loaded. We have Thai teenagers whose parents just buy a house or apartment near to school and they live there on their own while their parents live and work the other side of the city of elsewhere. They have a nanny/helper but basically live alone. I always find that a bit weird!

Also the Thai kids can get into university with very little in the way of school qualifications, so unless they intend to study abroad they don't have to really succeed at school. Some leave after Year 11 or 12 and go directly to Thai university. Even if they want to study abroad, they can do that by getting an undergrad here and then going later. So there is not enough emphasis in some families on the kids doing well.

I'd say behaviour is similar to a private school in the UK. Of course there are issues sometimes but nothing I haven't seen before, and generally the kids live in a bit of a bubble. Some are out partying etc and have no parental supervision, but many are not very worldly at all!

I find the work life balance better here than in the UK. Certainly less paperwork involved! But staff turnover is generally quite high as international teachers often move along, not because they aren't happy or they're not doing a good job, but just because that's their nature. Kids also come and go due to relocations, which means generally students are very used to this and integrating is not hard for new kids. So that's nice. My own children are very happy but they're still young.

Fascinating thread op, always wanted to visit Bangkok and interesting to see an expats perspective!
What is the healthcare like out there? And how is it set up? Do they have a state healthcare system or is it all private - how does it differ from the UK basically:)

@tarar2020 foreigners use the private system pretty much exclusively. Health insurance is not really optional as I'm not sure what access we would have at local government clinics and it would be very difficult if you don't speak Thai, which most of us don't!

The private system is amazing, the hospitals are like hotels. The main difference is that GPs don't really exist so you book an appointment for a specialist directly. That's great unless you don't really know what the problem is! My first time at a hospital here involved me going to the international desk to register and then trying to explain a possible gynae issue with hand gestures and basic English They apologised and said I would have to wait to see the doc. I only had to wait an hour, and this was with no appointment, so I was quite pleased but they clearly felt this was not good service!!

Rich Thais all use private too. And there is a lot of medical tourism from elsewhere in Asia, for both cosmetic and more standard procedures. Expats in Cambodia, for example, often come here for treatment or to deliver babies because the level of care is better here.

Because so much healthcare is private there is always the possibility that they 'upsell' you a bit. They include drugs in your bill that are way overpriced and that you probably already have at home or could buy at your local pharmacy for a fraction of the cost. The doc fee for the briefest of consultations is maybe £50. I paid a couple of hundred pounds for my son to have a few stitches in his chin.

Docs are highly trained but lack bedside manner. They are not gentle and they don't really show sympathy, and this is not just down to a language barrier, it just seems to be their way. They are very direct. They will tell you things like, 'you probably have cancer' without dressing it up at all. They use the term abortion when they mean miscarriage, which I think is more a language issue but can obviously be distressing. They don't give you all the information you need unless you ask the right questions, and they don't seem your consent before touching you, even if that touch will be in your vagina!

Locals (and poorer foreigners e.g. workers from Burma) access healthcare through government hospitals and local clinics, but they expect long waits. I don't know too much about the government hospitals but I know a lot of doctors work in both systems. I believe Burmese workers have more rights to this than other foreigners as they have a different status, because Thailand relies heavily on a Burmese workforce. Having said that, my nanny is Burmese and she came here as a child but has never visited a hospital. She says if she is sick, she buys medicine. I think she assumes she couldn't afford a doctor so would just avoid going, and I'm sure she's not alone in that.

Love Bangkok. Have been many times. Thailand in general is a place that gets under your skin. Have always wanted to live there but probably not going to happen.

My question is, do you ever fall victim of the tuk tuk driver scams or even the taxi drivers trying to negotiate a price rather than using a meter or the “Museum is closed but I know a better one” etc. I have been enough to be wise to these but you still have to keep your wits about you. That must get a bit tiresome?

Also have you made any Thai friends or predominately other expats? Have you ever been inside a Thai home, for example.

*to

@mrsjuliagulia you're right about all the scams but they mostly target the tourists. I've taken a LOT of taxis in my time (our first year we commuted by taxi every day) and nobody ever attempted to scam me when they collected me from my home, as I was obviously not a tourist. In the area I live I never have a problem but trying to get a taxi from a tourist area (or anywhere at night) can be problematic, with drivers refusing to use the meter. But I don't go out that often so it's never been too much of a problem! Also we have Grab, which is like Uber, and the price with them is fixed in advance.

Bike drivers are much more likely to scam me. I only use them for short rides and where I live it's never a problem, especially coming home from school as I see the same drivers often. And I overpay them anyway. But in town the bike drivers try it on, for sure.

For future reference, the best way around this is to tell them you're a teacher Thais really respect teachers and you are much less likely to be scammed if a driver knows you're a teacher!

The scams outside tourist places telling you somewhere is closed and taking you elsewhere are definitely a thing. It hasn't happened to me but it's a common one.

To be honest when you live here that stuff doesn't really affect you as much, as you just live your life in your area, go to your regular places etc, and the only time you have an issue is if you go to the tourist haunts. There is dual pricing for a lot of stuff in Thailand, though, and that really pisses off residents. For example, parks and other attractions often quote one price in English and then in Thai there will be a notice saying a lower price for Thais. Often if you show that you are a resident you can also get the lower price, but not always. As we pay taxes here, people think we should also get the 'local' prices and there are calls for boycotts of places that have this kind of pricing system.

It's really difficult to integrate properly with Thais. I'm on chatty terms with my Thai neighbours but most of them have foreign partners so they're more open to mixing. My compound is mixed but a lot of people are foreigners, so it's quite an expat bubble. At my work I'm on great terms with a lot of the Thai staff but have only spent time outside work with two of them. And yes, I've been inside their homes and they've been to mine, they know my children very well etc. But they both speak great English and have western husbands so again, not a fully Thai family. I'm also on friendly terms with some of the Thai parents from my kids' classes at school, but not beyond playdates.

I've found Thais to be lovely people but I don't speak Thai so I'm immediately limited by that. And we are culturally very different!

To be honest the stuff that gets tiresome is more the red tape and the slowness of some things. My school organises all my visa related stuff but it gets on my nerves that I'm supposed to report every 90 days (though now this is usually done online and if not, my school does it on my behalf so I only have to go to Immigration once a year).

Also I've never had to bribe the police but I'm aware it will happen. Having children makes it less likely (they are trained to wai at people, which the Thais absolutely love!!) but the first time I took a road trip outside Bangkok I made sure to find out how much I should carry as a bribe if I get stopped at a checkpoint. Not something I'd ever considered in the UK, obviously!!

Such an interesting post, I've loved reading this! My husband and I did a stint in Malaysia recently (he's a teacher), we came back to the UK to start a family but are keen to return to Asia, probably Thailand, we loved it. Here are my questions...what do you think the standard of living would be like living on one teachers salary if I stayed at home with our two kids? What are teacher expat packages like, I'm assuming includes health care, accommodation allowance and flights home beg and end of contract? What platform do Thai international schools use to recruit, is it TES or search associates? How many schools have you worked at in Thailand and what were the good things and differences in the schools? Is there a good expat community for spouses and kids who don't work?

@sunnyhan18 I've only worked at one school so far, but starting at another in August. I also know teachers at a few others.

In terms of package, they vary hugely as there are LOADS of schools in Bangkok! For anything mid/top tier, you should expect insurance, flights every second year, and a small relocation allowance to help cover baggage when you arrive and leave. My old school did flights every year (as cash) so that was a nice bonus, but every second year is standard.

Housing allowance is standard at most mid/top tier schools but not all, and again the amount varies. I've heard everything from 25k - 45k a month (Thai baht, so at the moment up to around £1000). Some schools don't offer it and some schools will offer accommodation onsite/locally instead.

Most schools don't tell you the actual salary until you get an offer, which is frustrating, though rough details of benefits are usually available with the job ads. The one resource I found useful as a very rough guide was the Bangkok Prep staff handbook, as there is an appendix at the end with a breakdown of teacher salaries. I used this to help me judge ballpark figures when I was applying. Their package is fairly decent, so I expected some offers to be lower but at least it gave me an idea. You can find it with a quick Google.

You can absolutely live on one salary if your husband gets a role at one of the top tier schools and/or if he is in a leadership position. You could live in a decent condo or house with shared pool etc, take nice holidays, hire a helper, and generally live comfortably. You wouldn't be loaded but you would have a nice, easy life. If you have lots of outgoings in the UK they would make a big dent, though. There are many, many schools that would NOT afford you this, though, so do your research!

Big names to consider are Bangkok Patana (British IB), NIST (fully IB), and ISB (IB but I think American in terms of culture). These are known to have the best packages around. I've heard especially good things about NIST in terms of teachers being very happy there. Others that I believe have reasonable packages are Bangkok Prep and St Andrews Nord Anglia. There are also several British brand names that I think have good packages but I can't confirm as I don't personally know anyone there (Harrow and Shrewsbury have a good reputation and then Wellington and Kings College are brand new, so too early to tell, but the pay is probably good). There is a new school called VERSO that is a really modern place with incredible facilities and a very modern curriculum and approach to learning... Google it! I am intrigued by it but I don't think it's for me! But the pay there is ridiculous from what I've heard, close to double what many schools offer.

2 children's places at your school for free is the standard, but some schools try not to recruit too many teachers with children as they don't want to offer too many free spots (this is not public info but is absolutely true of some schools, as it is anywhere on the international circuit I think). It just means you should be prepared to apply to many schools and if you don't hear back, don't take it to heart as your family could be the reason, not your suitability for the job.

Search is more likely to be used for senior roles but TES is used by almost every school. You can check websites directly, too, as the odd one doesn't advertise on TES (I think I missed applying for a role at St Andrews because of this).

Schools vary massively so there is something for everyone. A few have good special needs/learning support departments but most are very mainstream. Obviously varying language levels in all schools but the top ones would get kids up to speed very quickly. Most are not overly selective in terms of academic ability but generally the kids are lovely and from really diverse backgrounds. Lots of Thai students as well as foreigners, but I personally like that. My own children have been very happy so far but they are little. Other staff children I know have also had good experiences. The only negative I hear is that some schools are heavily Thai and that can be difficult for foreign kids, but they generally find their people. They won't ever be fluent in Thai though, that just doesn't happen here.

Facilities are generally excellent so sport, music, drama, art etc is high quality with lots of opportunities for kids. Most schools will expect some sort of extra-curricular commitment from all teachers, so some coaching or running a club of some kind.

Yes, there is a massive expat community and lots of opportunities for non-working spouses. There is a Facebook group that is the holy grail for expat mums. You can easily make friends through that as well as at the school gate (if your kids are young). Also the teaching community is very tight, all good schools will have a good induction programme and teachers socialise together so you would be included in that. Colleagues with children will naturally include you when you arrive so you can make friends that way, too. If your children are small there are groups you can join or you can just post on the Facebook group and people local to you will meet up. Expats are good at this!!

Oh I forgot to mention, a bonus of one month salary every year or second year is also standard, so that's a nice top-up!

Do you feel there is an exploitative underbelly with foreign maids/nannies? Given that you’ve said your nanny feels she can’t afford medicine, is she very lowly paid?

I only ask because I remember seeing a thread on here ages ago where someone was asking for tips as they were moving to, I think Dubai but maybe somewhere else, and people were quick to tell her how very very cheap ‘helpers’ like maids and nannies were. It struck me that they weren’t really thinking of why these helpers are so cheap. Here it’s actually quite a highly paid job.

Sorry, what I meant is your nanny can’t afford doctor visits, and buys medicines!

@Kanaloa yes, there is definitely an issue with underpaid domestic workers. We pay my nanny above the norm for someone in her role (she lives with us so has no accommodation expenses and we provide all food and toiletries). Her basic salary is still less than £500 a month, though. We massively overpay for any extra hours she does and bonuses as that gives her a good boost. I think a lot of expats pay over the standard rate but it's true that generally these women (and gardeners, drivers, etc) earn very little. However, they can earn more than many unskilled jobs in Thailand. The gulf between rich and poor is massive.

Since working for us, my nanny has put herself through school at the weekends and started buying herself nicer clothes and going out more with friends, which she definitely didn't do much before. She is going and single so her money goes a long way here, but many helpers have children of their own. Her mother is also a live-in helper and she doesn't get any days off at all. That's illegal but it's the reality for many helpers. We offer my nanny more days off than we have to according to labour laws, but she doesn't always take them. At first she never took any extra days off we offered and gradually she learned it was a genuine offer, she didn't have to work all the public holidays etc and we would still pay her. At first she used to ask permission to go and visit her mother at the weekend. Now she knows she can do as she pleases! We have always paid if she is sick and I know many people paid their helpers even when they couldn't work due to covid restrictions. But I also know people who stopped paying them during this time, which I thought was terrible. I even know people who don't pay their helpers if they (the employers) take holidays to their home countries, which again I think is outrageous. We pay my nanny regardless of if we are here or travelling, it wouldn't occur to me to do otherwise!

My nanny could afford the medical care offered at clinics aimed at locals and Burmese workers, I think she just doesn't know where to go or how to access this. And her Thai isn't great. We now have a network of older helpers we know who would assist if we ever needed help. I've recently discovered my nanny paid a small fortune (by her standards) for her work permit renewal because the agencies here rip the Burmese workers off, but now I know who to put her in touch with next time. We also pay for all covid tests and we've offered to pay for vaccinations (not just covid, in general).

When we first looked at hiring a helper we asked our landlord for furniture for her bedroom and she said no, because the girls always steal things. And anyway they don't need a bed. I was appalled and obviously bought her proper furniture! We've also paid for hot water to be installed in her bathroom as many houses are built with a.c. and hot water everywhere EXCEPT the maids room. It's awful.

To generalise massively, most helpers prefer to work for westerners as Thais are tougher employers. And there is a lot of discrimination against Burmese here so most Burmese wouldn't be treated well by a Thai boss. Again, huge generalisation, but Chinese and Indian families are also considered tough to work for. The win is a western family where the parents are teachers as they take lots of holidays, so nannies often get to travel a bit of else get extra time off or just house-sit over the holiday periods.

To me it seems insane to treat your helper anything less than well, because you are trusting them with your home as a minimum, but very often with your children. My children adore my nanny and I can't see myself ever letting her go unless she chooses to, in which case I would help her find a new family. As my children get older her role will change and as long as she's happy with that, I'm happy! I joke with her that she can never leave me and she always says she never will, I think because she has experience of much more difficult work environments.

When people ask what I pay her, they often tell me I could get a girl for less money or for that money she should also be doing all the shopping and cooking and cleaning. I just ignore them. She's amazing and I trust her 100%. She is very active with my children, if I asked her to cook and clean as well then she wouldn't be as actively engaged with them. She keeps on top of things in the house but I don't expect a shiny kitchen and clean bedding all the time. But many people do... And depending what country they're from/where they've worked before, some habe crazy expectations compared with mine.

To put the pay into context, I recently heard that the Thai teachers at my school (who speak good English and have at least one degree) only earn about £100 a month more than my nanny does. And they have all the normal living expenses that live-in help do not.

An expat teacher typically earns around 5 times what a Thai teacher does at my school, plus better insurance and other benefits.

We certainly live a privileged existence here.

Really interesting thread! What do you teach and what qualifications do you need to teach in an International school?

I suppose that’s the flip side of everything being so cheap/good living for westerners. It sounds like your nanny has found a really good family though, I’m sure she feels grateful to you for respecting her as a worker.

Another question, not sure if it’s a bit daft but is there a big difference between Thai students and British, in terms of how they act or how they are socially? Or if you teach a big mixture of nationalities, are there clear differences?

How can you bear that climate all the time? I can't imagine!

Thank you @Eledamorena it is so insightful and helpful to understand a bit more about the schools, wages and lifestyle. It's hard to know these things before you actually get there. We found that when we moved to Malaysia, at least now we feel we know a bit better what questions to ask to understand the life we may be leading there. Have you found that your friendship group regularly changes with expats moving on?

@sometimesonly I teach English and I have the regular qualifications you would need in the UK (degree plus PGCE). Teachers from other countries have whatever the equivalent is in their country. You don't technically need a teaching qualification in Thailand but it is much easier to get a job if you do. Lots of people in Thailand, and Asia in general, teach English with just a TEFL/TESOL qualification, and some of those are very dubious! But they teach at language institutes or online and don't earn anything like a teacher in an international school.

In some countries they are very strict about teaching qualifications and also insist that your degree subject matches your teaching subject. No amount of experience or talent can make up for this if it's a work permit/visa requirement!

@Kanaloa yes, it's definitely hard to process sometimes that we have such a comfortable life and yet we are surrounded by poverty. And the kids we teach don't always recognise this. Expats because they live in a bubble and locals because they are all very affluent and because they are almost entirely Buddhist and therefore have a world view quite alien to me in many ways! I've had very interesting discussions with older students about 'big issues' and every Thai student felt that people living in poverty should work harder, that their families can help them (there is a much better community life here so there is some truth in that), and that this is their lot in life. They didn't outright say it's karma, but that was the gist. Some have outright used karma as a reason to be anti-abortion.

Your question about students is really interesting. I'm generalising, but yes there is often a big difference in terms of classroom behaviour, attitude, and socialising. I had a class this year that was super diverse, only 2 or 3 Thai kids, a few more mixed Thai/foreign, and the rest from all over the place. The dynamic in that classroom was entirely different from a predominantly Thai class!

Generally speaking, many Thais are studious, they respect their elders and in particular teachers, they complete all their work and perhaps extra, but they do not like to speak up in class. Honestly, I find this a bit boring! On the other hand, there are also some Thai students in every year group at my school who do very little and sometimes misbehave a bit, speak Thai the whole time, swear in Thai etc, but who are safe in the knowledge that they can get into a Thai university with ease and that they will work for their family anyway. I don't think that's a Thai thing, though, I think that's a (certain type of) rich kid thing. The studious, quiet ones are much more typical.

At my school the students do mix a lot but there are natural divisions along language lines. Of course Thai speakers want to eat their lunch with other Thai speakers, so in some year groups they are a bit separate from others, socially. Whereas if you're the only German/Korean/Danish-speaker, you sit with the others and your English comes on quickly!

To continue the stereotypes, in my experience many Indian, Chinese, and Japanese students are more studious and often under parental pressure to perform well. Indian parents are not happy that we don't use many textbooks and often ask for more homework! If they're really unhappy with our approach, they leave and go to a Singaporean school instead!

There are of course exceptions to all these comments

@ginghamstarfish I actually prefer the weather here to the UK! I know it's not for everyone though. You do adjust to it. I find myself saying, 'oh it's a bit cool today' and then check my phone and it's only 30 degrees

You get used to being a bit sweaty most of the time. I'm sure my kids will freeze to death when we visit the UK! They sometimes shiver and complain it's cold getting out the pool. Below 30 degrees is genuinely on the chilly side for them, as it's rare!

Interesting that you say most Thai students are quiet and hardworking. I originally come from an city that has a small Thai community and found that lots of Thai people I met were very quiet or came across as more shy. I wasn’t sure if it was a cultural thing to be more reserved, perhaps so.

Thanks! I teach English too but I have TEFL qualifications rather than a PGCE. I was just wondering if they could be used in an international school setting rather than a language school setting. Not that I am thinking of moving at the moment - but who knows?