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AMA

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I'm a gypsyologist AMA

347 replies

Devlesko · 14/09/2020 16:27

Just this really, anyone interested I'll answer if I can.

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Devlesko · 01/10/2020 18:16

For anyone interested in the language or study and is academic Grin this is the guy.
nib
Thank you so much for posting, I didn't want to talk too much about the language as not really confident or knowledgeable enough. Thanks

languagecontact.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/YM/ym.html

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nibdedibble · 01/10/2020 18:44

He does look like the guy 😁 Excellent publication record. Thanks Flowers

BabbleBee · 01/10/2020 18:47

My grandmother always said there was Romany in our family, but my Ancestry searches don’t seem to confirm this. Unfortunately my Grandfather was adopted in the early 1900s and although I know who his birth mother was, his birth father wasn’t recorded. Likewise I know his grandmother was but not Grandfather. My Nan always told me that I was a throwback to them because of my skin colour (?!) - I’m no pale English rose, I definitely have a warm / olive tone but again can’t find anything in the family tree that would suggest this is true.

Fascinating thread!

MyBoysHaveDogsNames · 01/10/2020 19:01

@MyBoysHaveDogsNames

Do you know much about the Scarrott family? I have seen various spellings. My great grandmother was Eliza Scarrott, born in Hadlow, Kent and listed as a hawker on the census!

I have traced further back and Smiths keep marrying Smiths!

Thanks

Hi Devlesko. Did you know anything about the Scarrott name? Thanks
nibdedibble · 01/10/2020 19:14

@Devlesko I just looked up Welsh Kale - that’s going to be linguistically interesting 😁 Welsh, English and Romani!

Devlesko · 01/10/2020 19:37

AltoCation

I'm so sorry I missed your question. Blush

Yes, we travel most of the time, but are usually at home Christmas Eve, for the rest of the winter, but still travel for work.
All this has changed due to covid though and me nd dh are again at a crossroads, not sure what we will decide.
The children had a mix of H.ed and school, depending on their school year, they all took exams except for dd this year and that couldn't be helped.
None of them are hugely academic I blame endogamy, we don't have huge IQ's.
Me, dh and dd are musicians and I'm an entertainer, so our work fits well with a travelling lifestyle usually.
I think dd will be the one to travel the other two seem quite happy to live in houses. There is a big gap between the two lads and dd, so we usually do what's best at the time.
With dd boarding for secondary and our last dependant we've hardly been in bricks n mortar in recent years.
Been here since March and my feet are itching to get out again.
Family is important to us and we've never gone so long without visiting extended family, most of them are on sites, or bought land, built the smallest bungalow they could and parked trailers or wagons behind.
In the last 30 years we've mostly travelled.

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MyBoysHaveDogsNames · 01/10/2020 19:37

Where's a good place to get your gedmatch?

Devlesko · 01/10/2020 19:46

Gedmatch link here, I uploaded my DNA from ancestry, but this includes the other companies too.

www.yourdnaguide.com/upload-to-gedmatch
It's amazing when you see your matches and some of the names.
I'm still surprised now and tbh it was weird finding that there was hardly a Romany name missing from my matches.
I knew my heritage so it must be even more exciting, surprising for those just finding out.
If I can play even a small part in helping anyone I'll be so happy. It brings such joy, I know small things amuse small minds.

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Devlesko · 01/10/2020 20:42

Whoops, just thought.
It would be highly unethical not to mention GEDMATCH sorry to shout Grin has been the subject of criticism ito security in America.
I'm not that up on it, tbh but do read the small print and of course cross out law enforcement if you don't want this.
Some of my contacts won't use it, but I've never had any problems and as I say have nothing to lose.
Do think about any implications of sharing your DNA. Thanks

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Devlesko · 01/10/2020 20:58

MyBoys

What a beauty, have a look at this. Grin

parsons.history.tripod.com/id12.html

Now, nobody can 100% guarantee authenticity, but if it's only 50% factual it's a help. But I'd expect it to be much higher tbh.

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OrangeSplash · 01/10/2020 21:24

Excellent thread op, thank you! I have some questions :

  • you mention certain names as being romany names eg Cooper. Would you say then that any Cooper today is of Romany descent or is it common to have cross over between surnames in travelling and non travelling communities?
  • how do you think romany travellers in England feel about being English? Would they think of themselves as such or simply identify as romany?
  • are there still romany people in India? (Could Google this one i know!)

Thanks again for the thread :)

Devlesko · 01/10/2020 22:09

Hello OrangeSplash.

A name alone is no indicator because Romany quite often took a common name of that area.
Cooper is a strange one though because they weren't just transported to America, a fair amount came back again. So they can confuse the most advanced researchers.
Smith is the main one, you'd never know unless you had lots of other indicators too, like occupation, geographical location, births of children etc. There are so many clues to look for.

I would say that most Romany identify as such, rather than just English.
But most are proud of their UK heritage too.
I consider myself as English Romany, but when talking DNA and to distant cousins in other countries it's the Romany that's important if that makes sense.
Yes, Romany are still world wide, ooh amazing fact.

Me and one of my cousins traced our DNA to a tribe in Tajikistan, called the Pamiri Tajiks. Now, this doesn't sound too amazing as we all know that everybody came from Africa or India, or so is said.
But the fact that we share the same DNA as people living there now, and it can be traced to when Romani were there about 1000 years ago.
So we asked specialists how this could be true and it's all because of those awful words I mentioned above that leave you needing a bucket.
The funny thing is we've decided to go on a visit and hopefully film it, when we can.

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Devlesko · 01/10/2020 22:10

Sorry, no I don't consider myself English, but UK. idiot, me I've Scottish and lots of Welsh.

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MyBoysHaveDogsNames · 02/10/2020 07:59

Thanks Devlesko! What a great photo!

Devlesko · 02/10/2020 12:52

MyBoys

Check out the Scarrot on the left, you might be able to find your branch from it.

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Devlesko · 02/10/2020 17:35

nib

Sorry for the abbreviation. Your nn is hard. Grin
If you are still around, that's all I know about kale too, if you have any pointers on where I could find a course/ lessons it would be very helpful.
I know about the museum in Wales where they have resources, but that's it.
I don't reckon much to my chances, though.

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nibdedibble · 02/10/2020 17:43

I don’t, I’m afraid! Looks like the people who’ve published on it might be German (linguistics is much researched in Germany as well as here). I hope you can find a link to someone whose family used to speak it. We’ve lost so many wee bits of language history...but I suppose that’s how things develop, everything changes.

Devlesko · 02/10/2020 17:58

I'm not trying to sell you anything honestly, and I have no vested interest, but here are some books with family names that I've seen mentioned.

rtfhs.org.uk/publications/gypsy-families/

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DoctorYang · 02/10/2020 21:43

@Devlesko

DR YANG

I want your Gedmatch number now. Grin
We could be distant cousins Grin
I'm dying to know does your DNA follow the migration pattern.

Have sent you a PM :)
DoctorYang · 02/10/2020 21:50

[quote Devlesko]I'm not trying to sell you anything honestly, and I have no vested interest, but here are some books with family names that I've seen mentioned.

rtfhs.org.uk/publications/gypsy-families/[/quote]
My gypsy family have a publication on there, the Descendents of John and Jemima Elliott. They are my 6x great grandparents 3 times over!!! Jemima was a Smith.

2Zebras · 02/10/2020 22:31

Have you ever been in that pub at the end of my road?

Futureal · 03/10/2020 00:02

@Devlesko

Have a look at this, he tries to watch his language but you'll hear a bit here and there. www.travellerstimes.org.uk/#

If the heavyweight champion of the world is experiencing racism, what hope is there for the rest of us.
I don't want to put a downer on things, but this might be a good place for people to start especially if they have young males.
Please forward to anyone you might feel interested.

Tyson Fury is sexist, homophobic and anti-Semitic. He'll have no sympathy from me.
ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 03/10/2020 11:25

You may be interested to know that Lia Leendertz's Almanac has a Romany theme for 2021. I buy it every year anyway, for the lunar cycles, tide timetables and whatnot, but as the structure is similar from year to year, she tries to explore a different theme with each edition. This one includes Romany customs and recipes, and sections about navigating by the stars for travellers etc. (I actually bought it a couple of weeks ago but have only just picked it up and discovered this this morning, which feels like a weird coincidence!) Here's a link: www.waterstones.com/book/the-almanac/lia-leendertz/9781784726348

Devlesko · 03/10/2020 12:58

Futureal

That's a shame he always came across as being a gent to me.
I don't know about the homophobia and anti semitism, but most traditional Romany and travellers are sort of sexist.

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Futureal · 03/10/2020 14:54

Don't you remember the whole controversy when he was nominated for SPOTY? A good role model he is not.

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