I'm a gypsyologist AMA

[Devlesko]

Just this really, anyone interested I'll answer if I can.

Thanks OP!

I suppose there is 'dobbin' for a horse as well. I hadn't thought about it before but that, bobbin and bobbo do all seem quite similar and maybe related.

When I was a kid we had lots of hedgehogs in the garden and we used to put slugs in dishes to attract them so they would come every night. Following my Mum we named them all Hotchy... Hotchy One, Hotchy Snuffles etc. As a child I thought it was a short form of ‘hedgehog’ but later realised it was based on the Romany word.

Ha Ha, Hotchi witchi. It's harder to say than Hedgehog

When I was visiting a school in Norfolk, many years ago, the children had done some lovely pictures and labelled them.
I came to one, a beautiful picture labelled "egog", it took me a while

I love this thread. I went to school with many a Boswell, Lee, Worral which I haven't seen mentioned yet and there are Hearne (not sure if I've spelled that quite right) and also Jones"s.
Apparently one of my great great grandmother's was known as Spanish Annie, I look most like her, to a scary extent.
Thanks for this, I feel really happy a lot of this is being recorded, especially as gypsy culture has traditionally been based on oral rather than written narrative

My Dad used to say that my Mum had Romany ancestors but she would always get quite angry and refuse to discuss it if anyone asked. Reading between the lines I think it was because it was something she had been bullied about as a child. Sadly all of her generation is dead now and we don't really have any contact with any of our more distant relatives so there is nobody to ask and I don't know whether it is actually true or not.
I've had a go at tracing my family history online and whilst I have followed a number of lines of the family back quite a long way, there is one line that I have drawn a blank on, so I am wondering if this could be the Romany connection. The family name is Bramwell and from what little information I do have it seems likely that they were from the North West of England, probably Lancashire or Cheshire. Does that name ring any bells for you? I know there's probably no way to be sure but I would like to know if there is likely to be any truth in the family stories or not. Thanks in advance if you can help!

I'm late to your thread @Devlesko but I'm really hoping you can help me. Part of my family tree had the surname Grey, which I think may be Romany. I've heard it said it said that Greys were Romany with pale skin but not sure if that's true or not. That section of the family tree is impossible to research, the paperwork just isn't there and there are lots of contradictions, particularly as to dates and places of birth etc, but they came from the Midlands. My grandfather was said to have been born in the workhouse at Aston, near Birmingham. The men tended to be labourers and used to move seasonally between Wales, Birmingham/Coventry and the farms in Northamptonshire. The women often went into service. The families were mostly big, but got scattered quite widely, I think. All the ones I know about are long dead, so no one to ask, sadly.

What I wanted to ask is whether it sounds plausible that we were Romany. Is Grey a Romany name and does that area and lifestyle fit with what you know? Where do you think I could find out more - books, websites etc? And in absence of birth certificates, how can I trace them? Really grateful for any help as that part of the family tree has been a mystery for so long.

Thank you for answering so many questions.

Wow, I know a branch you are talking about just from the names. I'm not sure where you are but these all travelled Wales in the old times.
Worral is a descendant of Henry Price I have one as a great great Uncle, some of them went to Canada, I message a distant Worral on Ancestry. Obviously Jones are a Welsh name and linked to Rogers and the famous Welsh Kale Roberts family.
Hearne is another old Romany name, so you have met a good mix of Romany and Kale there.
You would often find Worral and the Prices in Shropshire.

MrsAvocet

I don't recognise the name, but that could be a good sign, because if it was a female changing her name then obviously it wouldn't follow through. The area as well could mean they were bargies, on the canal.
The general dealers/ earthenware dealers would obviously travel the canals to transport their wares.
I will ask about the name and post back, hopefully with some info.
It's just a thought, but sometimes if a girl ran off with a gypsy the family would have nothing to do with them again.
I would bet that it was shame of some description, passed down.
Society have never really liked us much, so they would be ashamed of their offspring.

Conquest

I'll be back, and Grey every Romany family has a Grey in their tree.

www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials/am-i-descended-from-gypsies/

www.richedmunds.co.uk/early-gypsy-families-1

rtfhs.org.uk/the_rtfhs_baptism_index/

There are some listed in Norfolk here. But they were all over the place.
So much history and now you know, if you google you'll get tons od stuff.
Happy reading

Oh dear, just found this
www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/Gypsyindex1.html

Do you know much about the Scarrott family? I have seen various spellings. My great grandmother was Eliza Scarrott, born in Hadlow, Kent and listed as a hawker on the census!

I have traced further back and Smiths keep marrying Smiths!

Thanks

[quote Devlesko]Oh dear, just found this
www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/Gypsyindex1.html[/quote]
Oh wow, @Devlesko, that's my evening gone! Thank you so much. I had a bit of a google after reading this thread and the more I looked the more I found but this is a great resource that I would never have found by myself, so thank you very much. I've already found another family connection which tells me I'm actually a solid 50% Romany, which is amazing, and explains a lot of things I hadn't really understood, family stories, etc. Feel a bit weepy actually! for you. Thank you.

Oh, I hope you are ok, this stuff can be quite emotional at times.
If you are 50% Romany you will have a very rich heritage to discover. Some of the old folk were such characters that they are well documented and they go from a name to a person linked to you.
Of course this is the same for anyone researching their ancestry, it's just so good when there's so much out there.
I love seeing the old black and white photo's collected for generations restored and that colour thing (I'm not a techie) wow they come to life.

Thanks for replying Devlesko. We think that it was a Romany girl who married into my maternal grandmother's family, probably in the fairly early 1800s, so it is of course possible we have the name wrong, or I suppose thatcould have been changed, to make her more "acceptable". It is interesting you mention barges, as I remember my grandma having brightly painted jugs etc in her house similar to what I have seen on modern day narrow boats. She always said they, and some old Coalport china ornaments were her "family heirlooms".
It is hard to know what's true, as my Mum had a difficult childhood for a variety of reasons and gave very little away, but she was certainly very sensitive to any mention of possible Romany heritage. Another childhood memory I have is when there was a travelling fair in town in the summer, our neighbour joking that they had better keep an eye on my sister (who is dark haired and tans very easily) or she would be "running away with the gypsies as she looks enough like one" or something along those lines. Mum was annoyed, and wouldn't let us go to the fair, which is why I remember the incident of course, as it was the most exciting thing that happened in our dull little town all year!
Of course there could be nothing in the story, but I always assumed there must be or else my Mum would have just said it wasn't true and not been so secretive. It is a shame really, as I am certainly not ashamed if it is the case, but I am curious, just as I am curious about other aspects of my family history. I think there is a deep seated human need in most of us, to know where we've come from.

I'm good, thanks. Mainly I'm a bit weirded out because I don't normally hang out in AMA and only saw this thread by accident! Anyway, I'll shut up now so you can help someone else! Thanks again.

@Devlesko my heritage is Cooper on the maternal line, married into Small and relations with Broadway & Orchard.
We have a small town in the SW we settled well into in the early to mid 20th century with both permanent and transient sites. I remember in the 80's the fight for permanent status at our site with the council and my cousins always being here for school September to Easter but as they still travelled had to go away for summer as the council would only licence their site for 9 months a year.
Some of the Gorgie lads would look forward to the return of 'the typos' as they could pick up day labouring for them.
To the point some would prefix their name as 'gypo xxxx' to take ownership of what could be used as a slur

Hi - another surname question! Is Chubb by any chance a Romany name? We also have Preedy in our line. I was always told that my great grandfather's family came from the Forest of Dean and were 'tin workers' although my grandmother was born in or around London. I've always wondered what the tin workers reference meant and also why that side of the family are very dark haired with very distinctive eye shape. Thanks!

I have Romany heritage, Stewarts from Banff and Blairgowrie, great grandmother was very well known fortune teller

Conquest

You are welcome to stick around and join in anytime. The thread has slowed down a bit, but I'll keep coming back to post things and answer questions, no problem.
It's great as it keeps me on my toes .

Nyxtophyllia

Stewart was a name I wasn't familiar with until I found my Stanley's, they seem to be linked quite a bit, for a few generations.
Did your great grandmother pass any of her skills down, many did. I remember them trying to teach me various reading platforms like Tarot, palms, tea leaves etc. I was useless when younger but much better now.

My mum got given her crystal ball and used for a while, they were much more the musical side, Belle and Sheila Stewart for example, lots of exceptional pipers too
Theres a cassette tape somewhere on the house with my great grandmother talking about early days as a traveller, pearl fishing, horse fairs etc

BCBG

I have asked about your name on one of my groups and as I typed the name Chubb, someone with the same surname came up, so hopefully she will confirm. I have heard the name Preedy before. So it's looking likely they are travellers. I'll post back when I have a reply.

EBathery

Did you see my link above for Queen Vic Diary? She wrote about Cooper, I'm a direct line from Matty Cooper.
There are so many in America now, it seems strange to share so much DNA with people who have never lived in this country. It's hard to get your head round at times.

Nyctophyllia

Wow, I bet one of the museums would be interested in a copy of your cassette, if you wanted to donate one.
Anything that can be passed down is so valuable.

Have a look at this, he tries to watch his language but you'll hear a bit here and there.
www.travellerstimes.org.uk/#

If the heavyweight champion of the world is experiencing racism, what hope is there for the rest of us.
I don't want to put a downer on things, but this might be a good place for people to start especially if they have young males.
Please forward to anyone you might feel interested.

Elvis Presley (1935-1977)
Charlie Chaplin (1889-1977)
Yul Brynner (1920-1985)
Django Reinhardt – (1910-1953)
Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
Rita Hayworth (1918-1987)
Michael Caine (1933)
Bob Hoskins (1942-2014)
Tracey Ullman (1959)
Tyson Fury
Bill Clinton
Mother Teresa
Adam Ant
Cher Lloyd

Hi again Devlesko. Interesting topic

The above names I recognise some as being from a Romany/Rom Gypsy background Chaplin (probably), and of course Django Reinhardt but do you have a source for the others.

Tyson Fury is not a Gypsy, but an Irish Traveller. Do you think the whole " English Romany" culture and history has been diluted, shoved to one side and even misappropriated by Irish Travelers in recent years?

Do you think also that (English) Romany culture and history has become romanticised in the last 100 years or so and has no relation to the actual real history of the people? That we have certain spokes people/news publications/so8val media pages setting themselves up as policltcised activists but who do not speak for the majority

That in comparison to many other European countries that the Romany here became more successfully integrated into English culture and that this was a good thing

I'm specifically asking about England

Flax

I don't have one source for the names, but they should turn up on a google search.
I and others use the word gypsy traveller and sometimes Romany interchangeably as whilst they have different cultures they are lumped together for race, which is fine to me.
I know some people object, but if we are fighting the same battles, to me it seems fair enough.

The only way I have found the culture to have become diluted is through government legislation and law.
The only way to keep the culture would be the ability to travel, as that has gone, so has most of the culture.

I feel Romany are treated terribly in some European countries and places like Hungary.
Comparatively speaking we tend to have it easier here, but when you look under the surface the discrimination and racism is still rife.
In this respect I don't think we have successfully integrated at all. Our outcomes are still far worse than other groups. There are still the same barriers to education, healthcare.