I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

Thanks @Desiring - I look forward to reading that.

Desiringonlychild
Thanks - I probably missed the dialogue on the extension as live abroad but from photos it doesn't seem imposing but I was just wondering why there needs to be an actual physical barrier.

A better question might be why someone is so offended at the existence of a completely harmless, discreet little wire that’s indistinguishable from telephone wires, just because it’s a Jewish thing.

There have been a few cases in the UK where communities have protested eruv wires, and in each case the wording of those complaints has been explicitly antisemetic.

The rules of Shabbat forbid work. 'Work' was been defined IIRC as the actions taken to build the Temple: eg things like cutting, breaking, fixing together, tying knots, lighting a flame, pushing carts, financial transactions, and also transporting things across a city boundary (when the first Temple was built it was outside the city of Jerusalem).

All cities in biblical times were walled. The eruv symbolises the walls of a city. Within the eruv a wheeled vehicle such as a stroller can therefore be pushed. An Orthodox Jew would go outside the eruv on Shabbat, but not while pushing a stroller.

I wonder, would a community of Orthodox Jews living within the old city walls of Pembroke or Conwy, feel the need for an eruv?

I do believe life is to be lived and not debated, considered, pondered on but lived in the thrust and heat of the day. I think faith focuses you simply because you no longer question these ethereal things and just get on with the physical but the love you feel protects you from the harsh reality of a physical reality.

This is very interesting, and I get it. But I don't agree with it.

Wasn't it one of the Greek philosophers who said "A life unexamined is not worth living" and was executed for blasphemy as a result?

It is Jewish practice to live your life in a mindful and focused way. We certainly examine our lives, though through the lens of Torah learning, to ensure that we inhabit every moment as fully as possible. We try to combine debating, considering and pondering on it with living in the thrust and heat of the day.

There is a saying that when we die and stand before the Judge, we won't be asked "Pikes, why were you not Moses?", but "Pikes, why were you not Pikes?"

Yes @PikesPeaked

I agree! Completely agree with the quote. But there is a balance an there are somethings that we cannot change (like death and taxes!!!) so it is not constructive to living to ponder them constantly - rather we do acknowledge them, contemplate, philosophies but still engage in living. Judaism gets this right in my view, it doesn't say ignore these things totally, it does say question them but just don't forget life, aswell.

I also think that Judaism starts from a positive principle about oneself - that we are born with tools and knowledge and gifts - they are innate - our job is to learn where to use them and how to turn them to use for the community. (I think I have that right?)

That's a very powerful message to one's self, I think. It is encouraging and says you have something to build upon rather than you have nothing and need to learn it all.

Psychologically, that makes such a difference. I cannot say the my experience of RC has been one that makes me feel good about myself - my core self. Instead, it makes me feel like my core self is flawed. I don't buy that as it doesn't make sense to me. I don't see that in Judaism - you are seen as worthy of engaging in these ideas without losing your sense of the here and now.

Btw - I understand what RC is trying to do - the whole original sin thing - but its default position is to fail to see what is already there in its attempt to fill in what isn't there. but that is just my experience and the Irish Church was/is a tough one.

RapunzelsBuzzcut
It's not me complaining. The tenants questioned it, I knew nothing of the extension and hadn't received any correspondence that it would be fixed to the properties wall (be it on the street side, so effectively council share of wall). I was just wondering about it and could tell the tenants the proper meaning. I don't imagine they have issue an of being part of the community or else they wouldn't have lived there so long.

Not sure how to quote pp but someone was asking if we weat tights to bed and the answer is no and we also don't wear clothes for sex. On the contrary it says that man and woman should be joined as one and therefore ideally they should be completely naked.

@shoppingbasket we (ultra orthodox) cover our bodies including legs so tights (or leggings) are the norm under skirts. But not to bed. @serenada you're right about lev tahor who wear tights to bed. Although lev tahor members are Jewish, they are a cult and they take Jewish practice and take it to unacceptable extremes,that are not recognised by even the most ultra orthodox groups.

I'll ask my husband in the morning about the black and white. I can't remember the reasoning off hand. It's actually not all Jews and not all ultra orthodox. The garb worn by an ultra orthodox jew varies widely between groups and sects due to tradition. As an orthodox jew I can tell immediately whether a man is lubavitch or yeshivish because of the style of black hat he wears. Chasidim have specific dress codes, that differentiate from group to group and are noticeably different on shabbos. For example Chasidim will wear something called a bekishe on shabbos ( a sort of silk long coat thing). A yerushalmi bekishe for example is gold whereas the ones most people will have seen is black. Chasidim (including lubavitch, who overall look more like yeshivish men than chassidish) will wear a gartel (a very long black fabric belt wrapped and tied around the waist). The dress code of the men is very varied. Although I would identify as frum (I guess you'd call us ultra orthodox) my husband does not wear a black hat to shul, and although he wears a suit on shabbos (not necessarily black!) he will wear jeans and a t shirt on Sunday.

Sorry my mistake I think @xenia mentioned lev tahor not @serenada. Just catching up!

A few Jewish magazines did expose style articles on them a number of years ago after they fled (or tried to I think) flee Canada following social service investigation. The whole thing was crazy.

When I stayed in Israel I remember some orthodox people who needed a tap turned off for an overflow or similar would ask my boss to come round and do it because he wasn't Jewish.
And there was a girl from an orthodox family at my school whose family had a live in au pair who wasn't Jewish for similar reasons. ....

Is that standard...and isn't it kind of 'cheating' a bit...or just practical?

I only knew about the non Jewish au pair because she was the neice of our polish neighbours...

I mean no offence by this question I am just curious.

@habibihabibi it's permitted on shabbos to carry within an enclosed area. (that can be as small as your garden or as large as an area around your whole community). The Talmud gives instructions on creating a single enclosed area including how to create a boundary around it. It's not a question of blessing the area but more practically creating that single enclosed area that meets the specific criteria explained in the Talmud.

@Destroyedpeople it's a complicated area of law. Asking a non jew to do melacha (work that is forbidden on shabbos) is not straightforward and a number of conditions have to be met. Each situation will have its own set of conditions and ways of sorting it and sometimes you'll be forbidden to ask a non jew completely.

So the light going out is a common one and one of the conditions the jew would follow would be to not ask directly but rather to hint to the non jew. You end up in some funny situations doing that! The water overflow is interesting - I assume it was probably hot water that needed turning off because I can't think why a normal cold water tap couldn't be turned off.

If there is any reason why the situation could be dangerous that also affects how (or whether) a non jew can be asked. For example I remember learning years ago about the ins and outs of what you'd do if the heating was too low on shabbos and it was very cold and there was a child or someone elderly or sick in the house, could you turn it up and if so how you would do it (because very cold temperatures could be considered to be a danger to health).

Basically the laws of shabbos are very very detailed and although a lot of them we know from watching our parents and learning by osmosis and practicing from a young age, the laws are complex and situations will come up that we don't know what to do. Ultra orthodox Jews will usually have a set of shemiras shabbos guides (laws of keeping shabbos) which are indexed and we'll look it up if we're not sure, or ask the rabbi. We also continue to review the halachos all our lives. Personally I don't know what the guidelines of having an au pair do melacha for you on shabbos would be, as I've not learned them as I've never had an au pair. If it was ever something I was likely to have I'd discuss with the rabbi.

I hope this answers your question somewhat?

@Elladisenchanted my MIL actually hates the term 'ultra orthodox' cos in her mind, orthodox means keeping halacha & you are either orthodox or you are not.. like she wouldn't count traditional as orthodox even if they belong to an orthodox shul. And therefore ultra orthodox is a kinda misnomer.

I wonder if this is a common view. To me as a liberal jew, I think anyone who belongs to an orthodox shul is orthodox, though there is a spectrum.and ultra orthodox usually means haredi. But I feel like in the charedi world, the divisions are not as clear as with orthodox/non-orthodox I.e. you are Masorti if you go to Masorti shul. My MIL sent her children to Chabad primary schools but she isn't Chabad. I heard of people in Israel who sent their children to charedi schools when they are dati leumi. So where do you separate the line between orthodox and ultraorthodox? Or is there no line. Unorthodox depicted a satmar Jewish family (where everything they associated with was satmar) but none of the Jews I know in real life are binary in that way. Out of interest, what makes you ultraorthodox?

Yes thanks for that x. Not sure what kind of tap it was but it was some kind of domestic emergency. I remember he brought a bottle of wine to say thanks. ...

Honestly I don't usually use the term ultra orthodox at all and don't really think of myself in those terms. I would simply say I'm frum which is what pretty much all frum Jews I know would say. For the purpose of the thread, I used the term ultra orthodox to define myself because others have said they are orthodox but would use the Internet or car on shabbos, whereas I wouldn't and it's a useful way to differentiate between levels of practice. I think the meaning of the word frum is lost in translation as to me it conveys a host of things and the direct translation is meaningless.

I haven't really previously heard the word orthodox used before to describe anyone other than Jews who I'd associate as frum (keep halacha without deviations from tradition) and that's been something surprising to me on this thread.

This has been a fascinating thread, thank you to OP and all the contributors.

I am also in Manchester and used to work in a large toy store which had a theoretically kosher animal as its emblem . We used to get a lot of families in who I always thought were chasidim but having read the thread I'm not so sure now, perhaps the correct term is frum?

Anyway, the males wore black hats and had ringlets of hair at the sides of their faces. I have always wondered but never had anyone to ask - what is the purpose or reason for the ringlets, do they wear their hair like that all the time or is it on certain days only, and is it their own hair or is it a wig? If it's their own hair, what happens if they lose their hair and don't have enough for the ringlets?

Also on hair, the adult females all had the same style of wig, is that because it is an approved style, or is it that there is less choice in Manchester as opposed to say North London?

Which areas are covered by the Manchester eruv, or is there more than one?

All the food talk has been amazing, I will seek out some Jewish recipes to try!

Boglins, challah - if you can make bread you can make challah and it is delicious.

Is it usual for communities to holiday together?

I live in Aberystwyth, and when we first lived here there was one week every summer when a large group of orthodox Jews (after reading this thread I am less sure on terms but definitely frum, I would say) would come and stay in the university halls of residence.

After a couple of years this stopped being quite such a big thing (had been happening for decades previously I think). I believe that there were problems with regulations in the accomodation - specifically not being allowed candles, which made it impossible for the people staying to observe their traditions in the way they would want to.

I think some families still come, possibly staying in caravan parks or other accomodation, but it's not everyone in them same week any more.

I was told that they were from Manchester and I wondered if almost communal holidaying like that was the norm.

(We also have a week when the uni accomodation is used by the Welsh evangelical churches but that's a conference rather than a holiday.)

Orthodox and ultra-orthodox are useful terms to use without naming specific groups or sects, and without using Yiddish or Hebrew jargon. Shomrei shabbat/shabbes and frum would not be meaningful to most of the posters asking questions.

To me, 'orthodox' covers Jews who follow hallachah (the rules of Torah as interpreted and laid down by rabbinical authorities over the centuries), while being integrated in local life and culture.

'Ultra-orthodox' is Jews who go a step further in their practice, and choose too separate themselves as much as possible from the secular world and from local life and culture.

That's just how I interpret it.

@Elladisenchanted I think using the car on shabbos is more common for orthodox Jews who don't live in a typically Jewish area. I remember going to a shul in Muswell hill and feeling shocked that a woman told me she used the car to come to shul. I usually use public transport on shabbat as the nearest liberal shul is not walkable,but I always walk to orthodox shul cos I didn't want people to see me on the bus ( that would be a no no in Hendon).

"I live in Aberystwyth, and when we first lived here there was one week every summer when a large group of orthodox Jews (after reading this thread I am less sure on terms but definitely frum, I would say) would come and stay in the university halls of residence.

After a couple of years this stopped being quite such a big thing (had been happening for decades previously I think). I believe that there were problems with regulations in the accomodation - specifically not being allowed candles, which made it impossible for the people staying to observe their traditions in the way they would want to."

I remember exactly the same thing about Aberystwyth.

I live in South Wales and remember it as a regular sight too.