I'm a traveller- AMA

[Pinkyyy]

I was actually asked on another post to start this thread, I've been debating the idea for a while but usually decide not to because I've seen threads like this turn sour before. Hopefully I can avoid that and actually provide information and educate people on a way of life they may well know very little about.

I invite you to ask any questions you may have, and I will do my best to answer them all honestly. I ask that you don't bother to comment if you're going to bombard me with racism and ignorance. If you'd like to question a common stereotype, by all means go ahead but I will not respond to those who are simply here to be hateful. I also hope you'll respect that I don't like to share too much of my personal details on here, so I'm aiming more to speak about travellers as a a whole and not so much about me personally.

So.... AMA

Oh OP! Me please!
Ok, I come here with a complete open mind. My background: from a Southern Europe country with a long history of gypsy communities but mostly non- travelling, if that makes sense. As in gypsy neighbourhoods and such.
Moved to the UK and starting hearing a lot of bad things about "travellers"
In my country the ethnic background is Romany (sorry English second language) and here it seems like I hear a lot of a P word that I don't like to refer to anyone that lives in caravans and travels and associate it with crime. I don't like it.
There is "travellers site/ camp" close to us and to be honest they do a lot of damage in terms of drugs, property, etc...
But this is so far from my experience from back home and I think the term traveller is wrongly used and I am worried I am starting to feel negative about it now because of the camp close to my home.

Not sure what my question is

Are travellers from diverse ethnic backgrounds?
If you move about a lot how do you go about schools and jobs?

Thank you

Oh and in my country most of the highly respected artists in a particular kind of music and folklore are from Romany gypsy descendant

We don't feel deprived in any way which is probably why we don't try to change anything. Of course, there are those who may want to lead a different lifestyle and become a feminist, they are free to do so and would probably marry outside the community.

So are you not a feminist already then? Are traveller women not feminists?

girls hobbies are usually keeping the house/trailer clean

I feel a bit sorry for traveller girls to be honest if they're raised to think that cleaning and being a housekeeper/housewife is some kind of fun pastime.

Sorry but I don't agree with you at all on the education aspect. You say that the 10/11 year old children are more mature than other children and so can make the decision to leave school for the rest of their life. With respect I think that argument is bullshit, what 10/11 year old has the maturity and capability to decide to give up getting a degree in later life or even GCSEs? What if later on when it was too late they decided that they didn't actually want to be a housewife or a builder anymore but they wanted to become a doctor or a scientist? You've deprived them of that chance to get a job like that if they only realise age 17 that they want to be a brain surgeon, not a construction worker.

And surely the children are going to 'choose' to leave school permanently if they've been told by their family all their life that school is unnecessary

Why do travellers marry so young?

Do travellers go abroad and travel sight seeing etc.

You mentioned you’re an English traveller and this is distinct from an Irish traveller, but when a PP asked if you could recognise other Romani you said yes.

Just wondering which ethnicity/group you identify with and if there is a lot of crossover between groups? I’d always understood Romani and Irish travellers to be different groups with very different heritage (Indian and Irish)
Thanks

@planespotting thank you for your post, it's very interesting that travellers don't have the same bad reputation in your home country. To answer your questions- travellers are usually all from the same ethnic background, that being Romany. With regards to work and education when travelling, the children won't usually go to school unless you stay in any one area for long enough and the men will work anywhere in the country in their chosen trade

@TacoLover I would not consider myself to be a feminist, I think that would be a bit rich given my beliefs. I find it interesting that you quoted my post but cut it off to suit your point, their hobbies are not limited to cleaning as I did say, but you chose not to include that part. I have a few times explained my stance on education and it seems that some people simply don't agree with it, that is absolutely fine and I assume you are one of those people

@cushioncovers travellers marry young (although the average age has risen in recent years) because marriage is seen as the start of their life as an adult. Yes travellers love to go on holidays all over the world, myself included

@Veterinari English and Irish travellers are more different in lifestyle, though I think their ethnic roots are different too. I can usually tell if someone is an Irish traveller or a Romany gypsy

I'm certainly not here to compete for who is the most discriminated against, but even having our culture represented in education the way your religion is, would be amazing

You mean the education that travellers pull their children out of anyway why do you want your culture to be represented in something you don't think is important in the first place? If you acknowledge that information about cultures needs to be in education then how can you say that said schooling is unnecessary? Where are the traveller children that have been pulled out learning about Islam and its practices?

I think PP has a point about toxic masculinity being more prevalent in travelling communities e.g. shaming men on benefits or for not earning enough to support his family having a huge effect on suicide. That kind of pressure combined with homophobia etc has a massive effect on mental health.

For the teachers wanting some resources, wondered if this would help and for being interested. It isn't my culture, only my blood but there is so much prejudice out there it would be good for a good word to get out.
www.grthmlondon.org.uk/2017/05/26/grthm-june-2017-classroom-resources/

I would not consider myself to be a feminist, I think that would be a bit rich given my beliefs. I find it interesting that you quoted my post but cut it off to suit your point, their hobbies are not limited to cleaning as I did say, but you chose not to include that part. I have a few times explained my stance on education and it seems that some people simply don't agree with it, that is absolutely fine and I assume you are one of those people

Being a feminist means that you believe in equal rights for women do you not believe in equal rights for women?

I did cut out part of your post. I didn't say you were suggesting that cleaning was their only hobby and I didn't cut your post off to suit my agenda I think it's ludicrous that you included being a housewife basically and cleaning as a hobby in the first place as if housework is presented to women as some kind of pastime that they should be content with.

I know you've explained your stance on education, but you haven't talked about the specific points that I made in response to what you said. Would you mind responding to what I said about education in my post? Thanks.

@TacoLover probably wasn't the best comparison, good point. You call it toxic masculinity, I disagree and I do think that any many who is unable to provide for his family, has failed them. A traveling man would do anything and everything for his children, as I'm sure any man would (or woman)

Traveller storyteller working with schools here There are doubtless others.

That would go some way to explaining the huge social stigma men face which no doubt would leave many feeling they have no way out :(

You call it toxic masculinity, I disagree and I do think that any many who is unable to provide for his family, has failed them. A traveling man would do anything and everything for his children, as I'm sure any man would (or woman)

Btw I am very much enjoying this discussion and thread, so thanks.

I disagree that the travelling values aren't full of toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is when there are pressures put on men to conform to what a man 'should' be. How can shaming a man for not being able to provide not be toxic masculinity? How can the prevalent homophobia forcing men to be masculine and straight not be toxic masculinity?

A man can be trying his hardest and still not be able to provide, surely? In a lot of cases it would be out of their control like a disability, mental illness etc. And isn't it already harder to get a high paying job in a short time if you have no qualifications?

@TacoLover in all honesty I steer clear of the word feminist as I think it has become a radical movement which I don't support. It may seem alien to you, but many women (myself included) enjoy housekeeping and I see nothing wrong with that.

In reference to your previous post-
I am not saying that all 10/11 year olds have this capability, though many do as they are by this age already likely to be looking after siblings and assisting with some of their parents' work, but then not all of them leave at this age. I don't think that it's every too late to study or retrain so I can't see how they are being deprived of entering any profession. Not all travellers are construction workers. Also if they want to stay in school, they are more than welcome to do so, it's a common occurrence nowadays

Thank you for your response @Pinkyyy

@TacoLover I too am enjoying this and you are giving me a lot to think about. I the definition of toxic masculinity was far more severe in my head. There is a lot of pressure out on men to be rich, straight and manly and I can see how that could poorly effect them.

Thanks for your answer OP :)

However surely you acknowledge that traveller children are somewhat raised throughout their lifetime to think that schooling is unnecessary, which influences their decision quite a bit? And you say it's never too late to retrain but it's obviously going to be quite hard for someone who left in year 7 to then do all the relevant gcses/a levels, then university and then medical school because they were told by their family that education is unnecessary and now at age 20 it seems impossible for them to undergo so many years of education so late to become a doctor.

Sorry OP still a bit confused - you said
travellers are usually all from the same ethnic background, that being Romany.

But Irish travellers aren’t - they’re from an Irish traveller ethnic group not a Romany ethnicity.

Which group are you from?

@TacoLover I think that the view of majority of travellers is that the sole purpose of them going to school is to learn to read and write, other skills or subject are not very highly valued. I guess that if someone wanted to be a doctor so badly, they'd be willing to pick up where they left off really, but I see your point.
Do you think all masculinity is toxic or are there any parts of it you find your society could benefit from?

@Veterinari sorry, I'm not an expert on the background so that could be wrong. I'm a Romany gypsy but have some Irish traveller descent too

Any Welsh gypsies amongst you, this is a brilliant site, I love it.
Mine are on here too, the longest line I've found so far.
Please stop me if I'm boring you. It's so nice to share these things. My family just think I look at records of dead
www.valleystream.co.uk/romhome.htm
Click on the welsh gypsy box and there's lots on there.

Thank you @NottonightJosepheen of course it's hard to hear some of the things people say, especially those I know to be true, but I think trying to spread the message is the only way to try and create some kind of harmony between our communities

Toxic masculinity is a major problem across all sections of society, pinkyy which is why feminism- not necessarily radical feminism- is important. It's beneficial to men as well as women.

Do you think all masculinity is toxic or are there any parts of it you find your society could benefit from?

Personally I see masculinity as a stereotype. When we think of masculinity we think of manly, strong, not showing emotion; I think while it is fine to have these qualities(although I think everyone should show emotion to their loved ones if they need to), masculinity is a problem because it is attributed to men. And if these qualities are attributed to men, it therefore implies two things; one, that men should be all the things that are considered masculine, and two, 'masculine' things like being strong or providing for your family are considered the opposite of feminine, and therefore suggest that women cannot be strong or the main breadwinner.

So tbh I can't see where masculinity would be a benefit to society when masculinity is barely celebrated, just enforced. And affects both men and women negatively, as well as the reason for men not pulling their weight around the house or being a factor in homophobia. I think our society would be a much nicer place if men and women weren't pressured to conform to the restrictive ideals of masculinity and femininity.