I'm an actuary

[DadDadDad]

This is a bit niche, but a MNetter did PM me because their DS is interested in an actuarial career. So I'll watch this thread should anyone else want to ask.

Being an actuary is a (financially and intellectually) rewarding career if you are good at Maths (numerate degree) and have some interest in finance, economics and insurance (although all those you can learn on the job). Main employers are insurance companies and consultancies (including specialist pension scheme actuaries, the Big 4 accountancy firms).

And of course, you shouldn't put much trust in an anonymous stranger on the internet, but if I'm not genuine, you'd have to wonder why I've kept up this rather niche impersonation on MN for so many years. (Do an advanced search on actuary and my username!).

Anyway, here's a photo I took this morning - my actuarial qualification proudly hanging in the downstairs loo!

I know there are a couple of other actuaries on MN, so if they see this thread, they are welcome to comment.

High OP. Does it pay well?

Wow, that was quick!

It is well-paid. It takes some time to qualify (and passing the exams is tough), but by the time you get to qualification you would definitely be a higher-rate taxpayer, and experienced actuaries are earning easily £70k+. The most successful (eg partners at big consultancies, or those who are in executive roles in insurance companies) will be earning well into six-figures (I'm not one of those!).

Could you tell us a bit about what sort of tasks you do in an average week?

Am also an actuary. I have talked to DadDadDad a number of times so am happy to say that if it is a lie then it is a consistent one. (And his certificate is a pretty good fake including appropriate dates.)

Re: pay. I earn about £60k working 3 days a week (ie that is the amount of actual pay I get). This is (far!) outside London, working for an insurance company (consultancies pay better). I’m late 30s and since having dd nearly 9 years ago I have not gone for promotion as I like my job as it is. (Ie I have earnt fairly similar amount since I was 30.)

I think that counts as pretty well paid although I’ve ears where people announce that £1m a year doesn’t make them rich.......

Do you have to have a actuary degree? I'm thinking of a career changing but not sure if I can convince DH 27k of university debt is affordable.

Thanks, Mumoftwo (I sincerely swear that you are not my elaborately conceived sockpuppet! ).

I have a straight Maths degree. We employ graduates with degrees that have a strong numerate component such as Economics or Physics.

There are degrees which offer actuarial science which can provide a few exemptions from the professional exams. As a parent, I wouldn't necessarily advise someone to do such a degree because I'd worry they were specialising too early. When I've been recruiting, I can't say that someone with an actuarial degree is any more attractive for the role - I'm looking for someone with a top grade in Maths A-level and a strong degree (otherwise they will struggle with the professional exams).

So, to answer your question, Pickle, if you already have a degree (in a numerate subject) you do NOT need to go back to study. If an employer will take you on, they will pay for you to study for the actuarial exams needed to qualify. If you rummage around the website www.actuaries.org.uk/studying/curriculum-2019 you can see what the syllabus covers. (There are also past papers on the site).

When I was 29, I switched careers from teaching. I just looked for possible local employers and contacted them. It's worth a shot!

Please excuse the (very) ignorant question, but what does an actuary do? (I know I can Google, but it is interesting to know how you describe your work to other ignorant idiots!)

In my head, you are the people who calculate insurance risk, so that premiums can be set-but I appreciate that this could be totally wrong...

Don't worry, Utterly, that's a common question!

Your definition certainly captures a part of the work that actuaries do. We use training in economics, statistics and finance / investments to help companies with insurance-related risk (including pension schemes) to value its business (both new business in the way you allude to and its existing business that it may have had on its books for years - so we need to be knowledgeable about how the market works now and the products that have been sold in the past).

We also focus on risk, ie analysing scenarios where one or more factors may turn against us, and what capital the company needs to set aside to be able to weather such events.

Actuaries are close to the maths, ie we design and run the complex models used to project business that may take years to run off (classic example: an annuity, payable until death so we have to come up with assumptions about how life expectancy will evolve). But we also have a senior role in insurance companies (or as consultants), giving professional advice to the execs and board to make sure they are running the company in line with regulation while helping ensure profitability.

I know very little about actuarial science though have a physics degree so am looking for a possible career change. What type of maths does it entail? Do you use specialist computer programs to do the work? What does your day to day work consist of?

Cross post - you've answered my questions!

I think Physics grads are in a good place to be actuaries - they are used to the idea of modelling complex relationships and are not afraid of a bit of calculus or a complicated formula!

Day to day, I don't do much calculus, but I spend a lot of my time with spreadsheets, and these can be big and mathematically complicated.

A lot of the maths would come under the topic of statistics and probability.

Placemarking. I’m involved in actuarial recruitment and I would say that whilst I personally am a bit suspicious of any seventeen year old who’d want to do an actuarial science degree because I think it’s an unnatural choice for a teenager that’s purely my age and prejudice speaking, and I reckon we have a roughly equal split of perfectly good people with pure maths degrees vs vocational actuarial degrees.

Thanks, Dad - that's really interesting: what a fascinating and diverse career! I think mathematical modelling and stats are really interesting, but as I stopped with GCSE, I know it's well beyond me- but I think it's amazing what can be captured and calculated. Thank you so much!

If there were MN gold stars to hand out Dad^3 would certainly be in the running for the biggest one! Thank you very much for starting this thread, not only are you the best statistician the Archers thread has ever seen you are one of the most amazingly helpful people on MN.

So, DS2 would like to know:

Is the qualification portable to different countries, for example America?

How long does it take to qualify once you are past the degree stage and is it really as hard as people say?

I'd like to know if you think it's better to have had some life experience like you did with teaching or is it fine to go straight from uni, I've heard some people find it quite a stressful time when they are doing the qualification.

The questions on here have already answered loads, it's very helpful. Will be along again because DS2 is grumpily translating everything from Welsh so he can ask the right questions and apparently I'm deeply annoying for even trying to help him on a Saturday afternoon. I love being a parent.

MrsWarrensProfession he is a very unusual teenager he wants to make lots of money and use it to travel round the world visiting all the countries he's only seen on TV. He loves maths and can do it like most of us breathe so actuary seemed to him to be a sensible choice. I think he googled 'highest graduate salaries' or something!

MotherofaTeen - blimey, that's laying on the flattery on a bit thick . I'm totally falling for it...

I'm happy to tackle your son's questions. I'll drop some answers in as I find the time, but if anyone else out there wants to have a stab that's fine by me. (I know there's a few more actuaries floating round MN).

By the way, I believe Ms Warren's Profession was hinted at being an actuary in Shaw's play, but I think Mrs Warren was something less savoury, so be careful with that username...

Just had to google it: the Welsh is actiwari.

As I know nothing of either of the female Warrens I will go a d have a google now and educate myself.

The job sounds really interesting, if I’d found out about it earlier I’d have loved to give it a go myself.

MsWarren I do apologise

Is the qualification portable to different countries, for example America?

The qualification is definitely recognised abroad - I think there are some formal mutual agreements between different actuarial bodies (and of course, at present, in the EU, qualifications in one member state are given the same status in another...).

However, it still might be the case that an employer in a different country might prefer someone with local knowledge and experience. I have a feeling that US might be a bit more resistant to a non-US qualification - they have a very different system from what I understand.

On the other hand, there are a number of countries where there does seem to be more common qualification and ready flow of people - some countries even use the UK exams. South Africa, India, Australia, NZ, Canada (I think) spring to mind. Also, I think China is an expanding opportunity which the UK profession has been involved in developing.

I bet @MsWarrensProfession knows more about this one.

It looks like you might get a better informed idea here:
www.theactuary.com/international/

If you scroll down that page there's an article called "Whistle-stop tour" that might help.

I should also say that many insurers (and the big consultancies) are themselves multinational, so if you worked for one of those that might provide an opportunity to work in other countries.

Fellow actuary here. Very excited to see the word "actuary" in active conversations!

In my experience of recruiting actuaries into my workplaces, those with actuarial degrees don't work out as well - I think it's partly because they come in with lots of exam exemptions so immediately have to sit the "harder" exams without any work experience, but also because they tend to come in thinking they are better than they are so aren't happy to knuckle down and do the usual work of a first year actuary. So to a teenager thinking of becoming an actuary, I would suggest taking a maths or similar degree (I did maths and economics), choosing some actuarial maths options and trying to get some actuarial work experience eg between second and third years of degree. Also leaves options a bit wider if realise at age or 20 that they don't want to be an actuary.

There are two main actuarial qualifications in the world - Society of Actuaries (US) and Institute and Faculty of Actuaries (UK). Both are basically portable although there may be some work experience requirements to be able to do certain roles or to get full "mutual recognition" to enable you to also get the qualification in the country you have moved to. There are other qualifications (eg India, Australia, Canada), some of which are partly based on SoA or IFoA exams, but most countries happily accept UK actuaries to work there. (In most European countries, you get an actuarial qualification simply by doing a maths degree and a few years of work experience - a bugbear for us UK actuaries who feel they have it too easy!)

Most actuaries go straight from uni (and some straight from school) to start the job/exams. The exams are definitely hard - unless it's changed recently, the highest percentage ever of those starting the exams in a particular year to actually qualify as a UK Fellow is around 50%. Many people stop the exams (either couldn't cope with work and study, decided their social life was more important than staying home to study or just realised it wasn't for them) but carry on in a related role. Many leave. But those of us who stay and slog through it get a rewarding career - both in terms of enjoying the challenge and the monetary rewards. Like a PP, I work 3dpw (at least am paid for 3dpw but work more like 4dpw) and for that am paid just into six figures so am very lucky (but have worked hard for that luck!)

How long does it take to qualify once you are past the degree stage and is it really as hard as people say?

Welcome, AliMonkey! I think you've partly answered this next question.

A normal graduate package will offer you one day a week most weeks of the year and pay for you to receive the study material - specially written course material that you study in your own time, with exam sessions twice a year.

Even bright students find it hard, but that may be partly because they've got to be motivated to study on their own including evenings and weekends, while doing a job. The later exams move away from the theory to showing higher level thinking in understanding the complexities of insurance businesses, showing judgement and (to be honest) ability to recall a lot of dry information and under exam pressure make all the relevant points. It's sometimes the bright mathematicians who breeze through the earlier exams and then struggle with the exams that require them to string sentences together.

A very few pass in 3 or 4 years (maybe quicker if they have those exemptions), but 6y or more is not uncommon. And of course, some give up - that doesn't mean they can't do actuarial work, but some roles will be ruled out.

The only qualifications that I've heard about over the years that to me sound harder are patent lawyers and those facial surgeons who have to get both medical and dental qualifications!

Sorry, not very clear: graduate package will offer you one day per week to sit at home and study. (Some employers may also organise "classes" or pay for tutorials to help their students)

I'd like to know if you think it's better to have had some life experience like you did with teaching or is it fine to go straight from uni, I've heard some people find it quite a stressful time when they are doing the qualification.

I think it's perfectly fine and normal to go straight from a degree into this work, as many do successfully. However, as with any job, it takes time for some fresh young graduates to get those basic working skills and habits that you need in any office, around communication, self-organisation, initiative etc etc. So, if someone comes with a bit of existing life and work experience that can be attractive to employers, and may make your CV stick out.

As I said, I switched from teaching, and I like to think I've got better skills in expressing ideas on paper and in presentations than some of my colleagues - at the very least, it's a side to the job that I enjoy and have tried to develop in my career.