I'm an actuary

[DadDadDad]

This is a bit niche, but a MNetter did PM me because their DS is interested in an actuarial career. So I'll watch this thread should anyone else want to ask.

Being an actuary is a (financially and intellectually) rewarding career if you are good at Maths (numerate degree) and have some interest in finance, economics and insurance (although all those you can learn on the job). Main employers are insurance companies and consultancies (including specialist pension scheme actuaries, the Big 4 accountancy firms).

And of course, you shouldn't put much trust in an anonymous stranger on the internet, but if I'm not genuine, you'd have to wonder why I've kept up this rather niche impersonation on MN for so many years. (Do an advanced search on actuary and my username!).

Anyway, here's a photo I took this morning - my actuarial qualification proudly hanging in the downstairs loo!

snuffykins - please feel free to answer the questions. I've worked in the same place for 20 years, so I can't speak for the experiences of actuaries who work in non-life insurance, or in pensions or for a consultancy, and I am sure they would offer different perspectives.

Still waiting to see if @ISeeShapes, @trixymalixy, or @StatisticallyChallenged pop up here...

What's an actuary?

countrybunny - see my answer at 10:35

Is accountancy any use as a base for this?

Badgers - an accountant would have the advantage of being financially literate, able to read company accounts, and having general problem solving skills. However apart from part of one of the early exams, accountancy wouldn't provide any short cuts to qualification. Maths would be a better fit than accountancy for both the exams and most of the work. But I imagine absolutely possible to make the switch if you wanted. An accountant would also have the advantage of a proven track record of studying while working, which as you know is not easy.

thanks DDD! comets I can understand, but you lost me at economic models

Fascinating stuff so far. So two questions from me..

1. what if your initial degree wasn't maths/physics? I have a healthcare degree that covered some basics statistics for the use of data analysis but nothing like what has been described in this thread. Would that be enough and then keep on learning?

2. What is the salary like for trainees?

DadDadDad - you called!

I can maybe add some experience in the recognition of the qualification internationally. I qualified in the U.K. (my certificate looks very similar to the one in the photo DDD posted) and moved to Canada. The U.K. qualification was no hurdle - I contacted companies directly with my CV, had interviews with most (if not all) and was offered a position by two out of the three. I was surprised how straightforward it was.

Like DDD I am not sure if US companies would be so open - I suspect multinationals would be the way to go if you were looking for a move to the states

Pickle - I can only answer your first question as I'm in NI and only worked for a small firm so I'm out of touch with salaries. But IME it's a well paid job, but for most the properly high salaries only come with qualification.

For your first question - I suspect the numerical part of a healthcare degree wouldn't be seen as demanding enough. If you had a A in A level maths you may have a better chance. Actuarial students technically need to apply to the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries to sit all bar the first exam. It's usually not an issue as employers will have similar or stronger requirements, but the requirements (lower than I'd thought when I started typing but may as well finish) are:

• second class non mathematical degree; or
• third class mathematical degree; or
• B at A level maths

I would be cautious of thinking it's the career for you (general you) without a reasonably rigorous mathematical background. But obviously I've no idea of the content of your actual degree!

Re moving internationally - a friend who has done so said it's easy when qualified as qualifications can be converted. But as student it's more tricky as the exams aren't the same so you may have to retake some parts of the syllabus.

To be brutally honest pickle, I personally wouldn’t consider hiring anyone who didn’t breeze their way to a top grade in A level maths. I once hired someone who had a B, because they had the world’s best extenuating circumstances (think car crash on the way to the exam centre) and I lived to regret it because they just couldn’t manage the exams. If you did find an A/A* at A level a piece of cake then it might be worth a try. Bear in mind that there are also non-actuarial statistical jobs which can give you a chance to prove yourself and get in from the inside.

Institute of Actuaries salary survey suggests 33 grand average for a recent graduate, which is pretty good for a 4 day week! (Varies by region and area of course).

Pickle - I don't think the maths is much harder than A level, so if you have a good grade there (to be blunt, a B at A level is not a great sign). A numerate degree just shows an aptitude for the kind of work we do. But you would be competing against Physicists from top unis, so (sorry) a healthcare degree might not send your CV to the top of the pile.

I wonder if a career in underwriting might be better - some medical knowledge can be handy there.

I think that is probably true - if you convert to a different set of exams the professional body is likely to err on the side of caution in deciding what to give you credit for and you will end up further back.

The study leave seems to be less generous in Canada (so I assume also the US) than in the U.K. too.

I'm glad we're all in broad agreement about the academic threshold that you need to be likely to be able to cut the exams.

I had a colleague who joined my then firm (a big actuarial consultancy) as a graduate with a psychology degree so definitely not mathematical degree but had done lots of stats. So is possible - or at least was 20 years ago.

Have you always had an aptitude for maths? At what age would you say it is apparent that someone would have enough natural ability to become an actuary?

Performance in the Junior Maths Challenge (sponsored by the Institute of Actuaries) in year 7 or 8 would be one useful guide Fernicktylo.

Thanks for all your replies. I did actually breeze through my maths A-level, and wanted to do maths at degree level but my dad wanted me to do a vocational degree for job security.

How would you recommend getting some work experience? Using LinkedIn?

I'm so excited to see an AMA thread for Actuary!

I have a mathematical DS, who is studying A Levels in Maths, Further maths, Computing and Economics. He is seriously already saying he'd like to be an Actuary. He loves mathematical modelling.

His plan is Maths degree. Then look for best route for Actuarial training. So would that be one year Postgraduate course or a traineeship? Or do trainees need to do their time in insurance companies or get work experience?

Can you give any advice on what ideal work experience an undergraduate ought aim to do during summer breaks?

Interesting question, Fernicktylo. I always laugh when parents look at their 4yo building with Lego and coo "oh, he's going to be an architect!" Where does that leave the actuaries? I don't think my parents found many of as young children trying to enter mortality rates into a spreadsheet!

I did well in Maths from primary school age, got better through secondary, did O level a year early, did Additional Maths (extra O level) and was suddenly the best in year - that was my first encounter with calculus. By the time I was doing A level (Maths and Further Maths), it was a breeze. So, I think these days, you need to see how someone performs at GCSE and in the early stages of A level to see if they've got that ability.

But I should counter all the above discussions, by saying that although Maths skill is a en essential requirement, you have to have aptitude for other things too, being able to work in a business environment, being pragmatic in problem-solving (even when your inner mathematician wants to find the theoretically correct answer), and crucially being able to explain complex technical issues to the non-specialist - not all mathematicians can do that.

Whereismumhiding2 - as has been said upthread, your DS just needs to get a good degree - his employer (and the employer-sponsored study) will teach him the actuarial stuff. We've got some undergrad placement students working with us for a year, so that's a good way to get experience (and may even lead to a job after graduation).

I think vacation work experience might be hard to come by - maybe some of the big insurers or consultancies run programmes? On the other hand, any experience working in an office, especially if finance-related, will show that you at least can function in that kind of working environment. If he is a whizz with Excel that's always a plus.

Ideally you’d do a whole summer’s work experience number crunching in an actuarial environment whereismumhiding, (most people get that through relatives IME) but if that’s not available then any office job, especially one that’s heavy on the data processing and numbers, but also displays the ability to work with others and communicate would help. Serious computer use (especially high levels of Microsoft Excel, but any actual programming also v good) Is ideal because a fresh graduate with no relevant IT skills is so much more time consuming than one who knows the basics.

The thing about insurance is that it’s so wide ranging that almost any real world experience can be an advantage in the right niche job - see DDD’s comment upthread about the usefulness of a healthcare cv for an example.

It's such a relief when I cross-post with MsWarren and co to find that we are saying similar things...

Thankyou!!!!

Uncanny, wasn’t it?