My daughter took her own life while at Uni - can I help other parents? *MNHQ SLIGHTLY EDITED TITLE*

[Cclub]

This may seem a strange thread but I may be able to help other parents. Ask me anything that will help you keep your young adults safe .
DD , 19 , was a first year student in a RG uni . She experienced poor MH from the age of 13 . She accessed help at Uni and did make a previous attempt on her life whilst at Uni . We were not informed.
If your child is starting at Uni this term you may have questions . This thread is just to help others - please be kind . No need for condolences as I know you will have that for me but I just want to be able to help others . Ask me anything . Xx

Cclub - I am in awe of you. You selflessly post on here in the hope it will raise awareness and might do something to prevent similar tragedies in other families…. and you feel 'lucky' in terms of the support you get from family and friends. Many would have (understandably) gone to pieces and crumbled upon losing a child, but I am relieved for you that you have managed to maintain some positivity and focus despite everything

I hope that doesn't come across wrong

LImit- thank you x

Thank you for sharing.

My DD called Samaritans earlier this year. It was shocking when she told me. Until that moment I thought everything was fine. She said she just needed to speak to someone to express how she was feeling. I asked her what was wrong and why couldn’t she had spoken to me like she always did? She said I wouldn’t understand. I told her father, he was distraught. We sat her down and tried to tease some of things that she was hiding out of her. She complained about a few teachers in school and some friends that she had some conflict with. We tried to offer some solutions/guidance to some of the conflicts and I went to the school to complain about one particular teacher and she got moved from her form. I tried to organise some activities and short trips to lighten up the mood. Some days she was fine and other days she had low morale. She will lock herself in her room and come out only to eat and when I ask how she was, she will only answer fine. I told to her to feel free to come and talk to me if there was anything wrong. And she replied, she will not necessarily speak to me. I’ve taken her to the doctor for her low mood, they took some bloods and said low Vit D. They said low mood is not constant, no need to worry.

We had a small spat over hair, which became a huge deal. She told me she wanted to speak to a counsellor. I said if you won’t talk to me or your Dad at least speak to close friends and family ( I named a few trusted ones). She refused. She said she wants someone who won’t judge her. She is 16.

What should I do? I’m worried sick. Can’t sleep.
Counsellor won’t tell me anything (confidentiality). How would I know what’s wrong and how can I correct it?

MentallyConcerned - my dd sees a Child and Adolescent Clinical Psychologist (she is 16) and has for the past two years. We pay for it privately since the CAMHS referral was going to take too long and we might have ended up with counselling at an inconvenient time or location. She had low mood and anxiety when she first started going to see the Psychologist in Year 9 and went through a period of school refusal. Possibly not dissimilar to your dd but it manifested at an earlier stage. Is your dd in Y11 or Y12?

It is difficult to get used to the fact that the counsellor will not discuss the sessions with you as a parent - however I am sure they would flag concerns with you if your daughter was expressing desire and intent to hurt herself.

I think dd has benefitted from seeing the psychologist. She still suffers from anxiety - but she has learnt (as have I) to manage the triggers, not take too much on and knows when to quit. For instance she started a summer job but didn't feel that she could continue with it (even at one shift per weekend) once she started at Sixth Form college. I know lots of kids can work and study quite happily and dd on paper should be able to manage that too - but the point is she felt it was too much, and it has to be led by her. I've had to let her lead a lot of decisions where I would have preferred her to take a different route. In those situations (where she quits something as too much etc) I remind myself - Mental Health first

Dd now seems better able to manage her responses to stressful situations. We still have the odd acute episode - two weeks ago she got very worked up about a specific piece of homework that she couldn't do. She is dyslexic and it was her dyslexia that was thwarting her efforts at that point. When I say 'upset' it quickly escalated to a disproportionate level - she was crap and hopeless at everything, even the good things she does are a "tiny bit shit", she felt that life wasn't worth living etc, she started to cry and it was developing into a panic attack. It took a while to talk her down. I have to be honest - if she goes on to University (fine Arts degree or Graphic Design degree) I am going to try and persuade her to study locally and live at home, since I feel that I need to be around to talk her down if she had a panic attack and crisis.

Do arrange a counsellor for your dd - either through CAMHs or privately. Talking therapy from a trained individual can be a significant help

Mentallyconcerned please arrange a counsellor for your DD. With the kindest intention i’m Going to be a little blunt here: your post comes through with a strong need to control your DD’s Access to support and for that support to be centred on you and your family/friends and the solutions that you can offer. This is not necessarily what your DD needs and she has told you this clearly. Trust her to develop her own coping strategies with professional support. A trained, objective counsellor will be able to support her in a totally different way than you do as a loving parent. Give her what she needs and whilst it will be very difficult, don’t try and force her into confiding in you or using you as a counsellor, or asking her to discuss the sessions with you. She needs some privacy. The fundamental principle of effective counselling is that it is a single counsellor-patient relationship. It does not work if the person trying to counsel is also a parent/relative (dual relationship) You can’t do this for her, but you can provide her with the counsellor that she needs.

OP thank you for this thread.

I was wondering if you think your DD’s choice of course had any impact? I’m in a profession with a high suicide risk and it’s a constant concern in our students. I’m wondering if more should be done to highlight the associations between some professions and suicide risks to parents of vulnerable students?

"I’m wondering if more should be done to highlight the associations between some professions and suicide risks to parents of vulnerable students?"

You are right - I believe that some professions and some pathways are not are good route for people who do no have robust mental health because those careers and associated training are so exacting

Op I can't respond without offering you my condolences. I'm so sorry for your loss

I have a dd at uni now and to be honest thread has been an eye opener for me. Thank you so much for posting. You are clearly a really remarkable woman and mother.

I will ask dd about the opt in at her uni today and talk to her about this.

Thank you again

Hi all, DD chose to do a philosophy degree . I honestly think it was a mistake but what could I do? I agree that some courses are just not suited to some students but the universities don't seem willing to accept that . I wonder if 6th form advisers are a place to start . Some of the subjects and topics studied led her to overthink and reflect a bit much ( for her) . She studied The Handmaids Tale which is the darkest book I've read in years - some parts of the curriculum when combined can just be overwhelming.
In terms of CAMHS, my DD accessed service easily in terms of waiting lists but we just never got the right fix for her . She tried several counsellors but just couldn't get in to it .

😢

Cclub - you couldn't have done anything, and you couldn't have foreseen what would happen

I'm so sorry about your daughter, OP. I think the opt-in system sounds like a great idea and needs to be more widely adopted.

I'm a teacher often working with teens (and I have my own teen) and although I know depression doesn't always have an identifiable 'cause' as it were, I'm interested to know whether those of you with struggling teenagers and young adults think that the pressures of school are the catalyst? Or a significant contributor?

I'm very worried about the current culture of assessment/high grades at all costs in secondary schools (and even in primary) as many of my pupils seem to be placing impossibly high expectations on themselves which is leading to all sorts of problems is this then carrying forward to the student years?

Misty
School definitely a huge issue for my dd - she has dyslexia and this has been shown to correlate strongly with anxiety and depression. Not all teachers (I am sure this does not apply to you) fully understand what dyslexia is and the appropriate ways to support students

DD used to have major anxiety around school despite having a solid friendship group and being a high achiever. She was allowed to take exams in a more relaxed environment but I don't think the school staff really took her seriously. She was the student that was on the front page of the local newspaper on results day. To all outsiders she looked like the perfect teenager. It's hard to determine what the answer is but certainly we need more investigation into causes and how to respond. 😢

Cclub - sounds like she was a perfectionist?

Cclub, I've think you hit the nail on the head there when you said teachers don't always take pupils seriously. I've seen and heard of instances of SEN (dyslexia, ADHD, even autism) being completely ignored and even denied by teachers, even in primary school. School refusal is often seen as a parenting issue 🙄 And high achievers who are often basically told to get on with it and keep working hard to get those top grades. Some schools are waking up to the effect they are having on their pupils but not many. Sorry, I'm not meaning to highjack with this topic but it really worries me that depression is often beginning in and because of school and it's just being largely ignored.

Thank you for this thread.

LimitisUp
My DD is in Y12 now. Did well on her GCSE. She is a high achiever with low self-esteem. I have told my DD father this but he completely rejects that his daughter suffers from low-esteem. My DD has told me that and I hear it and see it in her behaviour at times. Her father says I enforce it and all I do is encourage her.

As for making her own life decisions, her father will have none of that as he fears she will mess-up her life. Which I’m afraid of too tbh. It’s a cruel, tough and very competitive world out there. We are trying to prepare her for it. But I’m prepared to compromise, back down if we are pushing too hard. I allow her to make some decisions.

Veterinari
I do want her to get help but her father won’t take kindly to that as he does not think there’s anything wrong. He thinks the problem is me, I’m too liberal. 🙁

Mentally - dd also did well at GCSE's with mostly A and A* equivalents (and a couple of B's), despite her dyslexia. She also suffers from chronic low self esteem (despite having lots of strengths).

I think your dd's father - if I may be so bold - will have to rethink his exacting expectations of her. Yes indeed it can be a tough, cruel world out there but there is more than one pathway to a fulfilling and workable (as in you can pay your way and afford to live) lifestyle. I am highly academic - and I've had to let go of my hopes for dd of going off to University and becoming a doctor / dentist/ barrister / vet / university academic etc and I've had to accept and rethink what is best for her - acknowledging that art and creativity are her passion (and yes you can forge good careers with those skills). Similarly, although dd is a talented sprinter I had to accept that she didn't want to compete any longer for her Athletics club and wanted to give it up (even though privately I thought it a 'waste'). She also started DoE but after a couple of months decided to jack it in (yes, I wanted her to do it - but she didn't). It is their life, we can and should offer advice but unless they are going to make a monumental cock up, we need to let them decide - especially if there are mental health concerns

What A levels is she doing?

LimitIsUp
Your DD situation sounds very similar to mine. Mine has also given up on swimming, tennis and athletics. I also thought a waste of talent but I had to let it go and accept. It’s her happiness that matters. But she has kept her job. She seems to enjoy it. I hope it continues. It offers her variety, opportunity to get out of the house, not school related and no friends involved.

A level choice was a contentious issue. We (parents) wanted her to do two sciences and a language (French/English). She met the criteria and had the grades for it. But she wanted the two languages and she agreed on one science. We went with it. We will rather she finish with good grades.

Yes, I have great expectations for her but if she doesn’t aspire to them, I won’t force. It breaks my heart but I’m beginning to learn to settle.

Do you accept that her death was as a result if an illness which in some cases is incurable, just like say cancer?
How many failed attempts does it take before people do believe that and grieve in the same way or does the stigma of suicide always hold that back?

The fact is, 19-25 year olds are NOT fully developed. Regardless if their legal status, they are not always able to cope on their own. We know now that the brain doesn't even stop developing until the mid 20s. Added to this the way we have bright them up, they haven't had the opportunity to develop the coping strategies and resilience previous generations did. Bristol Uni has had such a bad time of suicide that they have implemented a new procedure where incoming students are asked if they will give permission for their parents to be contacted if people are worried. I think this is a good start.

Autumn in a strange way suicide feels easier to deal with than say an accident or cancer . I am able to accept that this was her choice and respect that - as hard as it is . Grief is overwhelming of course .
DD was always open about her own struggles and so I try to be open with others now . I did have a few conversations with people that asked me 'what must have happened, was it s fall out with friends "etc . I ignore them or say - it was Depression and mental health that "happened ' .
This is every parents worse nightmare so most people want to learn something I think . People have been so so kind .
X

In DDs medical reports it is reported that she felt pressure from family to achieve.This is hard to read as I felt that we had done everything to remove any expectations. I still believe that to be true to an extent but ultimately it WAS her perception and I have to accept that . 😢

Ah, thing is the clinician may have planted that suggestion and she may have just non commitally nodded an assent to it. I think there is a tendancy to try and find out why and I bet some health professionals are guilty of lazy stereotypes (depressed / anxious kid = parents with high expectations). I am sure you did your very best and no way should you beat yourself up over it.

Cclub, you are so brave. Thank you.

This stood out to me:
The Local NHS carried out a Serious Incident Review which they feel highlighted issues in the way she was supported

When DS is down, the last thing he can manage is to negotiate the system in order to get help. It's almost set up to fail.

He needs a university GP. He hasn't arranged it, as that would mean de-registering from his home GP, who won't prescribe for students.

Home GP referred him to IAPT (text counselling) - to set that up meant he needed to monitor his email and reply within 24 hours. He didn't, and was removed from the system. He couldn't face starting again.

I set it up again for him. He had one session, they queried his medication and told him to go back to his GP.

The GP re-referred him to IAPT, but nothing has yet happened.

And here we are, three months later and back at uni, where he doesn't have a GP and can't face trying to register with one.

It's so very not joined up. Do you think a campaign for combined home/away care for university students might be the way to go?

As a result of this thread I had a really good talk with my dd last night. Thank you so much for posting op.

Lance there is a petition underway to allow students to register at 2 GPS- one at home and one at University. This would certainly have been helpful for my Daughter.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229573

The bundle for the Inquest has presented many short comings in the way young people are supported when they are away from home 😢