I live in Saudi Arabia. AMA!

[Shmithecat]

I still hear so many daft claims about certain aspects of living in KSA. Happy to confirm or deny what you've been told!

What do you think about the current situation with Canada?

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/2018/08/08/saudi-arabia-carries-out-rare-crucifixion-for-murder-theft.amp

Leave. Just leave OP. You might think you’re doing this to set your DC up financially but at what cost? To sacrifice your ethics, your integrity? What kind of example is that for your DC? This is not a good place to live and sheltering in an expat bubble is just not a good enough excuse.

@QueenoftheSilverDollar12
@Strokethefurrywall

SWS17
Wow that is a new low. I am genuinely shocked by that.

Stroke I've tagged you in because you said I wasn't making any coherent points so I try to explain using a metaphor.

There is someone who lives on your street who is a know child abuser ( beheading 16 year olds is child abuse I think we can agree on that). Everyone, knows they abuse their child. They ask you to a party where there will be free food and lots of cake. Do you go?

If you go to the party you are not causing the abuse, you are not involved in it and you are not helping them with the actual abuse. However, by going to the party you are giving your support to them and letting people know you approve of them. Would you go to a party in the house of a known child abuser?

You could go to another house, it's not perfect and they sometimes shout at their kids but they don't abuse them.

Neither house is perfect but one is a lot worse.

You go to the party and people disapprove saying you have supported the abuse. You say you haven't done anything wrong and anyway they had lots of cake and your son really likes cake.

This country crucified someone.

My DH and DF have both had multiple offers of work in Saudi but none of them could ever make the step to actually live there.Some of DH's collegues have gone and the thought of £13k a month tax free + expenses has been tempting but it really is in the top ten of countries I would least like to step foot in! I admire your bravery OP. I am still bewildered by people who actually pay to holiday in Dubai.

I've read the whole thread and found it very interesting - thanks OP.

Off topic but I couldn't ignore this Hattie

Do some women have such bad periods they must need sick leave? Im sure they do but I think it would have to be really bad to be given sick leave for it. What would be on the sick leave certificate? I guess it would be the medical name for heavy/painful periods.

Dysmenorrhea is the medical term for painful periods. However I can't believe there are women out there who do not know about common gynaecological conditions such as endometriosis and fibroids, which can cause massively heavy and painful periods - bad enough to cause vomiting and/or flooding through a tampon and towel in minutes, and so painful that they require treatment with prescription medication including opiates. So yes, bad enough for sick leave

I'm asking it again because I find it really difficult to get my head around paying tax to a regime that publicly beheads people @moussemoose

You are paying tax to a government that trades with the regime . Your tax is indirectly supporting a regime that publicly beheads people. How do you feel about that?

@Stopitjuststopit2018 How do I feel about living in a country that trades with the KSA?

Rather obviously I am appalled and horrified. So do I ignore it and do nothing? No I do not I campaign against it, I petition my MP, I would choose not to take blood money by working there, I am a member of AI, I make my opinions know using the freedom of speech I am entitled to in the U.K..

I could do nothing and ignore it but I don't I object because I have freedom of speech.

Is that enough?

Now are you off to the party being held by the child abuser?

@moussemoose
Now are you off to the party being held by the child abuser?
I think you’re confusing me with a different poster, but thanks

is that enough? - well whatever the OP says isn’t enough for you so

What campaigns do you do - genuinely interested

The child abusers party was a metaphor I used to explain working in the KSA.

No the OP can not say anything that will make me think her decision is morally acceptable. However, her only effort at justification amounts to "look at the big pile of money" and then saying the money is for her son.

I've discussed this with my dc and they are older teenagers and can express opinions also I have influenced them but they are appalled by the prospect of gaining financially while making an active decision (choosing to live and work there) to support an abusive regime.

I join in many AI campaigns sending emails and writing letters. I work with young people and encourage them to read about Human rights issues and (if they choose) write emails and work with AI.

I also have a number of Muslim friends who struggle profoundly with Mecca being in the KSA. Some Muslims are now refusing to compete their Haj as they are so appalled by the regime and others go but are aware of the moral equivocation involved. The OP seems to have made no real effort to engage with the moral issues involved she just looks at the money.

The OP just wants the money but it's for her son so that's ok.......

Thank you for a very interesting thread, OP. I've read all of it, and really enjoyed it.

@Mousemoose, your behaviour is awful, and now you're just making a fool of yourself. For the love of God, give it a rest.

I’ve found this thread really interesting thanks OP.

Stop tagging me and I will stop commenting.

How exactly is my behaviour awful? Have you read my post where I compare the KSA to child abusers ( they are child abusers btw).

If someone said - I am not going to that house because they abuse children - would that behaviour be awful?

Consider the sex scandals in many institutions, and the Rotherham scandal, many of these went on for so long because people would not make a fuss and if they did the person who made a fuss was accused of behaving badly.

When someone comments on uncomfortable truths who is behaving badly, the person raising the issue or the person who lives and pays taxes (indirectly) to a country that crucifies people and beheads children?

It is very English to think being socially awkward and raising uncomfortable issues is worse than supporting a country that bombs busses full of children.

FWIW I think it is a very, very interesting thread that reveals an awful lots about the priorities and interests of the posters involved

@Time40 I will continue to 'make a fool of myself' in relation to human rights abuses and am happy to do so.

I think when someone starts a thread about living in Saudi Arabia they put themselves out there for critics to respectfully suggest that they would be uncomfortable with the same situation or to raise moral objections. So when people point out those things it's not 'bad behaviour'. My friend is married to an American and he's decided never to go back there while Trump is in office.

If you post about living in Saudi then people are going to have views which are contradictory as the regime is so appalling. Personally I wouldn’t step foot in the place for all the tea in China. Selling your soul for money and ignoring the realities of life outside the ex pat bubble may sit with some but for me it would be a non starter. Horrendous place...

Thank you Shmithecat for a really fascinating thread x

Does it bother you that a man could be arrested for having breakfast with you?

I’m loving the ‘human rights’ arguments on MN.

Person living in KSA - most of MN are totally fine about the dubious ethics because it’s cash for the baby and the Op can’t be held in any way responsible for atrocious human rights abuses and is totally not legitimising them by directly supporting the regime.

Someone takes coke in the UK - entire of MN is up in arms about the person being totally responsible for the atrocious human rights issues in the supply chain.

But it’s ok to directly financially support a regime that executs children and stones women to death who have been raped, just as long as you’re making cash for the babz.

Thank goodness some people do have decent morals, and are prepared to sacrifice some of their own comfort and safety for the greater good - or the world would never get better.

“It’s ok if it’s for your family Hun” is not a great view point. I’m not sure I’m a strong enough person to do differently - but at least own your decision.

How on earth is @Moussemoose ‘making a fool of herself’?

She is asking interesting and well articulated ethical questions.

@Shmithecat

"I do! MBS has shown some determination so far... if he ploughs on like he has done so far, it's totally realistic. Some don't realise how huge women driving is for the economy. That and tourist visas is a massive step towards achieving it. "

Yeah, determination towards having journalists tortured and killed on foreign soil. But hey, that doesn't affect you, right? So who cares? And woman drivers looks pretty PR friendly, even if the fact that the women who actually campaigned for that change are now in jail doesn't.

Moussemoose, the way you're grinding your axe you'd fit right into the KSA

@SeaEagleFeather hmmmm yes I'd fit right in unless I was a journalist and then they might get me a building and murder me.

Do you read the news?

Please feel free to respond to the five or so previous posters all of whom make intelligent points about the human rights abuses in the KSA. Or you could just stand on the sidelines and make snarky comments.

I do wonder what would happen if SA ceased to be able to attract expats due to the brutally of its regime. If everyone absolutely refused to go and work there. Would it hasten change?

well mousse, I think your POV is so entrenched it'd be like trying to single handedly move the Eiffel Tower. I don't think you're interested in any comments at all unless they happen to believe exactly the same as you and are willing to be as lopsided.

probably kalinka. Sanctions hastened change in South Africa and achieved some goals in Iran.

It'd have to be extreme though; there's an awful lot of money to be made there.

My view that beheading children is wrong is pretty entrenched. Do you have a more flexible opinion about stoning women? Do you have the 'exact same view' as me about these things?

SeaEagleFeather when it comes to murdering journalists where do you stand? My view is, as you say, pretty entrenched. I'm also very definitely on the side of the fence that thinks women should be able to work in a equal and unrestricted way.

But if anyone can come up with a convincing argument that public executions are the way forward for a modern society I'm all ears.

Please SeaEagleFeather take the time to persuade me that these activities are reasonable and that choosing to live in a society that sanctions them is ok.

Like I said my views on human rights are pretty entrenched and I make no apology for that at all.