I'm a feminist-ask me anything.

[BertrandRussell]

and available for all.

I am fairly "new" to feminism - have always believed myself to be one, but feel that I have been reading/understanding more about it over the past year.

I recently read the autobiography of Robert Webb, and was pleasantly surprised to hear his "feminist ally" stance, and how he is teaching his daughters that the patriarchy is wrong.

Have you read this book, and what did you think if so? I know it is nothing ground-breaking, but I hope it gets a lot of men (who would otherwise not read a feminist book) thinking.

My other question is - do you have any advice for me raising 4 boys, in that I want them to be feminist allies too?

I really liked the Robert Webb book-and it came our at a brilliant time for my ds, who is just 17. It stimulated loads of discussion and really made him think. The raising of boys is a huge issue-(and the raising of 4 makes me feel a bit faint). I think there are two big things-conversations about consent from really early and lots of talk about ways of expressing feelings. Also-and this is particularly important for SAHMs - the children's father needs to sincerely value you as a parent and acknowledge the job you do. Even labour the point a bit. Make sure the children see their dad noticing and appreciating the job you do, and stepping up himself. You need to model the relationship you hope your boys will have....

Alan- I think we might be in the same place on trans issues-but, as I said, maybe that's for another thread.

Trolling? Well, I do tend to get piled on on here- I like to post feminist stuff on Chat and that's not popular. And I once, under another name posted something that everybody hated. But. Words on a page. It doesn't happen much in real life-I am moderately well thought of in the social circles I move in. Mumsnet can be a good reality check!

Why Do your think only 7% of women identify as feminist?

Thanks, that's useful advice, esp the SAHM bit. I am currently one but intend to go back to PT work in a few years.

Train-a much higher % agree with feminist views. The establishment, the media and the patriarchy present feminists in an incredibly negative light......

Littlecabbage- do talk about it with your partner. You need to have a strategy so you can model equality to your boys. It's hard work!

And why do you think they present feminists in a negative light?

I don't know, train. What do you think?

I don't know either. That's why I asked you .

I definitely didn’t mean to imply that you don’t see men as people. I think what I had been meaning to say, but then didn’t, was something about how if you listen to the experiences of individual men they often don’t sound any more or less satisfying overall than those of individual women, or any less affected by society’s expectations of them and/or their socialisation and upbringing.

I don’t think I believe that feminism should be reoriented to fight for men’s issues as well as women but I get that it sounds like I’m saying that.

You’re right, no one would say that they were uneasy being anti-racist because disabled people face problems too, and maybe that’s another clue to whatever my bizarre problem with feminism is (and I do find it odd - I asked the question in the first place because it puzzles me). In that example you have two ‘conditions’ for want of a better word which are not mutually exclusive, unlike sex. Campaigning against racism implies nothing about your feelings about disablism. You have prioritised one but it doesn’t mean you don’t care about the other.

In my head, and I think this is backed up by the way you have described things on this thread, feminism is about dismantling the patriarchy for the benefit of women and as a side effect men will also benefit. I would like to dismantle the patriarchy but I don’t prioritise the benefits to women above those to men, or vice versa, so I don’t think I can describe myself as a feminist because it doesn’t reflect my motives.

Okay, I am a woman and there are some things about feminism I do not understand. How would you define male privilege? Does this mean that every women is underprivileged as opposed to a man and that this also true for the Queen (for example).

How exactly does the male privilege show?

And a second question: Do feminist actually believe that women should be drafted in case of a draft?

With regard to my comment about people defining feminism differently I was thinking about things like attitudes to sex work and the trans debate which not all people who identify as feminists agree on.

There was also a comment earlier about feminism being open to personal interpretation. You disagreed, which is fair enough, but I think there are many other people like that poster who do believe they have their own version of feminism and identify themselves as such.

I did not read everything but I do identify as a bit of a feminist.... not a real feminist but a bit of a feminist. I am a stay at home mum of four... lol... and I had a bunch of men telling me I cannot be a real feminist cause I am not working full time. Isn‘t feinism about a woman choosing what she wants to do? and this is what I chose.

Do you believe the gender pay gap exists? Do you believe that women are paid less for exactly the same job?

I think that jobs preferred by women are underappreciated as opposed to jobs preferred by men. Look for example how much responsibility a mid wife or a social worker has and how little they are paid.

Or in other words: I believe that the male midwife earns exactly the same as the female midwife only that there aren‘t mal midwifes.

Going back to a much earlier point about feminism dropping the ball on raising children, I completely agree and it’s one of the reasons I didn’t have children earlier in my life. At the time I couldn’t see how I would have reconciled the various parts of life if children were added to the equation. My husband at the time would have been quite happy to look after them and by the time I was an age where I might have had them I out-earned him, so that would have made financial sense. But I also didn’t want to be the parent who just worked.

I am a stay at home mum of four... lol... and I had a bunch of men telling me I cannot be a real feminist cause I am not working full time

ConfusedWife. I had that a couple of times from men and it really baffled me because yes, if women have been fighting so long to get the same opportunities as men it seems anti-feminist to squander it.

But then I realised that I was measuring my self worth against the gold standard for men. And that was a type of internalised patriarchy itself.

So I thought about it hard, took inspiration from my feminist SAH Mum and came to a different conclusion:

The aims of feminism are twofold: 1) to give women and girls the same opportunity as men. And I don’t just mean the legal opportunity but actual real opportunity, in terms of education, encouragement, expectations and social freedoms.

But at the same time...

2. to raise the status and value accorded to what has traditionally been seen as women’s work. Having empathy, the mental load, housework, bringing up children these are incredibly important things that the human race (and the economic system) would crumble to pieces without. Rewrite history to reflect the important part that women have played and the challenges they faced. One of the most beautiful things about Mumsnet is that we come from various walks of life with different experiences but we all love our kids and spend a lot of time worrying about what’s best for them.

That to me is fucking amazing. So yes, for me, you can be a SAHM feminist so long as you recognise your worth and the importance of what you’re doing.

As Bertrand says monetary dependence is a problem which is why so many MNers urge SAHMs to have the legal protection afforded by marriage.

Well, I think that it's in the best interest of the establishment to maintain the status quo. And vested interests are inherently misogynist. But I would say that, wouldn't I?

ConfusedWife I think this kind of thing is a good example of privilege: hbr.org/2017/05/we-recorded-vcs-conversations-and-analyzed-how-differently-they-talk-about-female-entrepreneurs

It shows how it operates at the level of unconscious bias and how hard it is to know if you’ve been impacted by it.

"So yes, for me, you can be a SAHM feminist so long as you recognise your worth and the importance of what you’re doing"
I would extend this a bit to say that people around you need to recognise your worth as well-particularly when you're modelling relationships for children. The non SAHP needs to show very clearly that he recognises the work the SAHP does, and to gives it the same value as the work he does.

Train. Yes, I believe the gender pay gap exists.

So you believe women who do the exact same job as a man get paid less?

No-well except in the BBC, obviously. And in Hollywood. And in some other places. But in most everyday cases, women and men doing exactly the same job get the same money. But that's not what the gender pay gap means. Train- it feels a bit as if you're trying to catch me out somehow. If you are-please don't-there's really no need. Just be straight.