Discussion about abortion: part 2

I shall be telling my ds to use a condom and my dd too simply because I don't wish for them to get a STD. That it makes pregnancy unlikely too is an added bonus. I expect to have conversations with them about respect, only doing what you want to do, and taking responsibility for your own actions too. In fact I've already started. It's not about not trusting the other person, it's about protecting yourself (I think it's generally fairly unwise to put yourself in a situation where you have to trust someone, especially where the risks are potentially high). I'd also encourage them to have sex with people that they like and trust, and yes telling them that one of the risks of having sex is that there is a chance of having a baby, and that it's a good idea to discuss this with your partner if sex becomes a regular activity. If either of my children are incapable of understanding that there are consequences to their actions that they may have to live with, then I won't have done a very good job as a parent. And then of course if they do make mistakes I will support them. Isn't this a fairly standard approach?

(Last comment is sarcy, not meant to be taken as being genuinely down on young women who do decide to have children).

happysmiley she goes into his wallet when he's not looking and pricks the condoms with pins.

Obviously. It's very common behaviour in young women these days. Wanting as they all do to get pregnant young and be tied to a child and not be able to go out with their friends, or to university, and to lessen their chances of a good career etc. That's what the vast majority of young women are all about these days, didn't you know?

purits, the thread's just fine, idea's a crap though

purits, I think that the advice has been use a condom pretty much the whole way through this discussion, with people suggesting vasectomies and non penetrative sex for those men who can't accept the 1% risk of pregnancy when using a condom.

I'm not sure how a woman gets pregnant "accidentally on purpose" if a man uses a condom unless she saves the used condoms and secretly injects herself with the sperm afterwards. But clearly anything's possible with all the scheming harlots there are around so I think your son should ensure he disposes of his used condoms properly.

I thought you might think that the woman should recompense the man in some way. That would be in line with your arguments.

I'll bet you don't like the way this thread has turned - people are pointing out that your idea isn't very good

All of this "get the signature and get the cash" stuff gives men quite a lot of power over women at a vulnerable time, doesn't it. A lot of opportunity for men to hold women to ransom (if they are that way inclined).

It is starting to sound like the difference a few decades ago between having children in wedlock and out of wedlock.

Is that the model you prefer purits? A woman should take care, because unless she is already married, she cannot count on any support in the event that she becomes pregnant. And the men either choose to marry the woman and accept responsibility, or they can walk away and she can do what she likes but it's got nothing to do with him.

But men don't want that, on the whole, do they? They want to know their children.

Why is it not a problem if the woman wants (and has) an abortion, but the man wants a baby?

I cannot even begin to understand why that situation is not a problem

Are you a troll or is your name just mischevious while your posts are serious? I think I have seen you around.

Good spot on stirup, sixpercent. I don't know whether you're right or not but the OP does seem very bizarre, and not really interested in a conversation.

It's nice to see you posting, it would be great to see you posting some more!

I find it interesting the way that anti-feminist/pro men/snoffair etc people so often end up being so utterly horrible about men.

This idea assumes that men are responsibility shirking twats who are incapable of emotional bonds, shag around and are too thick to use a condom and don't care a fig for any offspring they leave along the way. Horrible.

Someone earlier said the OP doens't like women very much. She doesn't like men very much either as far as I can see. Both men and women appear to be assumed to behave according to some outdated sexist stereotypes. None of this relates at all to the vast majority of the poeple I have known in my life.

have lurked on mumsnet for ages but never posted but just cant stop myself.... sorry if it's been pointed out but isn't purits stirup backwards? have enjoyed the feminist threads but dont want to see it swamped with trolls. i can see the usefulness of honing and defining arguments but some things are depressing to always see debated again and again. it stalls the debate which is sad considering the brilliant discussions that have been had since the feminism topic's been created. sorry to intrude, back to lurking

purits, what about the situation which raised upthread: couple plan a child, woman gets pregnant, man gets cold feet and changes his mind. If he does this before the abortion limit, how could the woman prove that the child had been planned?

Also, the advice, wasn't keep it in your trousers. It was use a condom. What's wrong with that? Seriously, most "victims" of the type of behaviour cleanandclothed outlines won't have done and I can't have too much sympathy with that.

Does she have to pay him £1000?

What is the penalty to a woman if she wants an abortion and the man doesn't, and she has one against his wishes?

Why would the premise be that the man wants an abortion and the woman doesn't?

That is TBH.

Your pre-current abortion limit thing doesn't address my questions about sex or disability either.

What I will tell my DS is - be prepared for a baby if you sleep with someone. Use condoms.

And I will tell him the (true) story of a (male) acquaintance who (in a lifetime of one night stands) got drunk, had sex with a female acquaintance who fancied him and told him she was on the pill, didn't use aa condom, she got pregnant, he told her he didn't want it, she had the baby, told him the baby was his, he didn't believe her and pretty much forgot about it, then she had to tell the CSA in order to keep her benefits, he had a DNA test, and found out when the child was 5. Lost his girlfriend over it. Now loves the child but is faced with a lifetime of interaction with the mother, and no dubt very difficult questions from said child when they are older.

My sympathies are mixed in this situation, but my DS will be told it is a reality.

The flipside of this idea is an assumption that the men involved will be more than happy with never having any contact with the offspring.

I actually think that is a proposition that most men would find extremely unappealing.

The ones who find it appealing are more than likely the ones who are paying nothing towards their children currently. So you get your wish.

Anyway I am still interested to see how this will work in practice, if you could address teh points in my previous post that would be great.

Can a man decide to withdraw support when the sex is found out?

Can a man decide not to support children even if he plans to continue to live with the mother?

This raises very interesting questions IMO.