The kind of “girl” that a boy who identifies as a girl thinks he is

I do want to listen and I do want to learn and I wish I knew where I could meet trans people and discuss this face to face. I can feel their distress and I can see how difficult life is for them.

But the discussions would have to start with them accepting that the biological reality that the only way you can tell a man from a woman is the presence of Y chromosome, and that any other definition of "being a woman" is body-shaming to "unfeminine" women and/or unacceptable gender stereotyping.

I have had long discussions with a female to male trans person in a stereotypically male job. We talked several times about the effort they were putting in to increasing their upper body strength and their life with their gay friends. They seemed happy in their own skin, which seems more common, from the lower levels of trans activism in that cohort.

People or either trans or they aren't. Attempting to explain them using cis life experience isn't going to hit the mark.

Most trans people would rather not be trans. They have pride in who they are, but life is incalcuably more difficult.

Casting trans people as mistaken, guessing where they went wrong, scolding and calling them deluded, confusing gender with sexuality, creating ableist origin stories for them - none of it hits the mark.

Trans people are simply trans. Investigating why is missing the point.

How do you know that is where he got it from?

Back to the ignored question about (lack of) cognitive development in a 5 year old

I don't think it's possible to answer that question. Based on what I have learned empirically about being trans , I think its highly plausible that a gender incongruent child might experience discomfort with particular aspects of their anatomy without having the social or conceptual framework to understand or describe that discomfort as gender dysphoria. Equally, they might not. We simply don't know.

Definitely not that simple.

The transphobic parents who are/were big in Mermaids documented how they created a girl out of their effeminate boy. They've attempted to erase the record since but people still have copies.

I hope she contributes too! It wasn't my intention to speak over her:

However, since “we simply don’t know”, don’t you think we should find out before taking non-trivial steps. how do you suppose we find this out? It's not an experiment we can conduct. And since humans live in communities, how much value would it ultimately have? It's an interesting thought experiment/ hypothetical which has very limited meaningful practical application,

@TransParentlyAnnoyed People or either trans or they aren't.

There are plenty of people on trans reddit who are unsure of whether they are trans or not. There are posters who say they were, and now they're not and posters who say that they 'feel trans' some days and not others.

Effeminate, though? What are those characteristics?

He wanted to play with "girls" toys like a play kitchen. His father would not have it.

They should, of course, not have defined a toy kitchen as a girls toy, but they did.

Was Keira Bell mistaken when she thought she was a boy or is she mistaken now?

Do people really think this is what being trans is about? Dig deep. The profound distress and disorientation that can come from gender dysphoria. The relentless desire- desperation in many cases - to pursue social and medical transition with all the consequences that can bring. You think this is about a play kitchen? You truly believe that's an adequate explanation?

Don't trivialise the argument. The issue isn't the kitchen. The issue is the messaging from a primary caregiver.

He was four years old when he knew who he was. He carried it through his entire, happy childhood of being - outwardly - the 'girly girl' his gran always wanted.

Even though we have never been a family for stereotypes. Notably so. He has two older brothers, and we didn't treat any of them differently along gender lines.

Afraid there is no investigating us for clues. He isn't autistic. He had a normal upbringing, learning about acceptance of disability because his brother was deaf, uncle had LD. My aunt is gay, he has always known her girlfriend. He felt able to come out to me because I had explicitly told all our kids that I'd never care if they were gay.

He is trans because he is trans.

Unless IgglePiggle was beaming secret code into our living room every evening, he learned who he was from himself.

You have somewhat missed the point that poster was making! The idea that affirmation of “The profound distress and disorientation that can come from gender dysphoria. The relentless desire- desperation in many cases - to pursue social and medical transition with all the consequences that can bring.” Is somehow going to solve this distress is at the route of so much harm…how about providing age appropriate psychological support to the individual and families instead?

Trans - and detrans - people are individuals, all deserving of respect. She can answer that question herself.

RTFT. It’s not “people” here: it’s what the Mermaid’s parents thought when their boy wanted to play with stereotypically girls’ toys. It’s the reason they transitioned him. Of course it was wrong and that’s the point.

Ah of course. Blame the primary care giver- usually the mother of course .

Why not just leave trans people alone? That's an option.

As is not being constantly negative about them, making generalisations and talking about them as though they aren't individuals - part of a tiny minority who you don't need to understand, just accept.

My friends don't understand what being trans is, but they know trans people exist and just respect that. It's really not hard.

Fair enough. You must surely acknowledge though that, logically, KB was either mistaken when she was (like your child) convinced she was a boy or she is mistaken now she is no longer convinced of that?

they know trans people exist and just respect that. It's really not hard.

the problem is that there are a lot of people who have become convinced through the media/ social media, that if they do this, words will lose all meaning, no one will be able to describe anything anymore, terrible things will befall all the precious women and children, and society as we know it will collapse.

The mother actually blamed the father. In an earlier interview I'm sure she said that she was also horrified about her son's liking for "girls' toys" and girls' clothes, but later she claimed that she thought he would just grow up to be gay and she was OK with that.

She definitely blamed the boy's father though, although she was the one who took her son to America for puberty suppressing drugs and then Thailand to be castrated on his 16th birthday. She also took over Mermaids and changed it into a trans grooming organisation for gender confused children.

Oh you mean susie green? Her daughter is definitely trans. It definitely wasn't about a play kitchen.

That's one way of putting it 😂