pronouns on booking form

Respect works both ways. Subscribing to the idea of a gender identity (again, made up with no basis in science) harms girls and women. Good for you that you are ok with going along with a misogynistic ideology, but some of us feel quite strongly about it.

Telling isn't it, how it always comes down to this.
"Just do it bitch"

Don't do it OP!

I don't understand what you mean by harm.
Also, I really don't understand why women need to be so cognizant of this indeterminate harm to an undefined group of people, when the very real harms to women resulting from gender ideology are dismissed and speaking out about them is called hateful.

I wasn’t laughing at consent. I was laughing at you using it here. Consent is serious, which is exactly why I don’t think it should be dragged into an argument about a tick box on a booking form.
Go back and read my comments. At no point did I say you couldn’t say no. You can say no all day long. What I said was that I thought it was a disproportionate fuss over something that costs you a second and has no consequences for you. “Just tick the box” was obviously shorthand for “you could just tick the box”. Nobody was ordering you to do anything, and I think you know that.

Here’s an example. Someone’s asked for her name at Starbucks so they can call her when her coffee’s ready. She says “No, I don’t want to.” I’d think that’s a bit odd and say “it’s only so they can shout you when it’s done.” She says “NO.” I’d say “okay, weird hill to die on, but you do you.” That isn’t me denying her right to say no. It’s me thinking the no is petty and a bit precious. Both things can be true.

Having the right to say no doesn’t make every no a reasonable one. Women’s can be unreasonable, men’s can be unreasonable, and so can anyone else’s. Saying “that seems disproportionate” isn’t overriding someone’s autonomy, and suggesting it is waters down something that actually matters. There are women whose no really is ignored, and they deserve better than having the language borrowed for a disagreement over a form.

It would harm me - already here people have assumed that women who put she/her pronouns in their signatures are 'cis'

That's the exact thing I've been fighting most of my life - from the first time I was given a baby doll for Christmas when what I wanted was a toy aeroplane like my brother. Or when I was made to wear a skirt to school, or hounded out of A-level physics by a misogynist teacher.

“Someone’s asked for her name at Starbucks so they can call her when her coffee’s ready. She says “No, I don’t want to.” I’d think that’s a bit odd and say “it’s only so they can shout you when it’s done.” She says “NO.” I’d say “okay, weird hill to die on, but you do you.””

You would actually say that to a customer? And you are telling other people what harms them and what doesn’t?

I can think of quite a few valid reasons why someone wouldn’t want to give their name to someone, have it called out in a stroke or have it written on their drink. Yet you would shame them.

And people have got valid reasons for not wanting to give their pronouns.

There isn’t a consensus on that. I’ve seen arguments from transpeople against compelling revealing pronouns as it could be outing.

In addition, for many feminists, alongside the argument that pronoun use in this way suggests adherence to a particular ideology, there has long been a resistance to signalling sex when it is unnecessary. Women are frequently disadvantaged when this happens. There seem to be a whole heap of people acutely aware of unconscious bias and microagressions when it comes to every group other than women.

Saying “that seems disproportionate” isn’t overriding someone’s autonomy, and suggesting it is waters down something that actually matters.

Interesting.. because I think it's disproportionate to have everyone put their pronouns on their emails/badges, and waters down things that actually matter..

Consent is very important to observe even for things some people consider to be unimportant.

Can you define 'harm' in this context please?

What harm comes to you from not having pronouns on a badge? On one hand youre saying it’s not a big deal to put them on, but youre now saying it causes harm to others if you don’t? It’s either a big deal or not. Which is it?

It is Schrodinger's Harm.

The use of 'there's' instead of 'theirs' is causing me mental distress....

Me? none.
Other people? To people for whom it does matter what pronouns they are referred to by, it can cause severe emotional distress and be detrimental to their mental health.

Tell me with honesty and sincerity that ticking a box and allowing people to clearly know how you would prefer to be referred to causes you similar harm.

ooooo clever, my typo at nearly midnight is worthy of mockery and dismisses my argument.

Wibble/Wobble

sefere mental distress 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Have they tried therapy to reframe their trauma? Why is people’s fragile mental health my concern? If someone is so afraid that they are seen as their true sex rather than the one they claim to be, they need help. Not people going along with their stupid ideology. I mean, it wouldn’t cause me any harm if I put my religion, weight, height or age on my badge, but it might help other people. Should we do that as well?

I was actually #beingkind and trying to ignore that.

I know, I should too but I identify as a pedant and I should probably get some therapy. 😐

Edited for clarity and a spelling mistake 😂

they see it as a sign of respect to use the ones they know I am comfortable with.

So respect that some people don't want to use them. It's that 'respect' all going one way again, isn't it?

Consent is serious, and I don't consent to men identifying into the category "women", or accessing single sex spaces that are for women, or participating in womens and girls sports, or winning awards set aside for women or taking positions allocated to women or telling me to accept pronouns that are not factual or that men can become women through jedi mind power.
If men have a problem with male gendered stereotypes, and feel they do not fit into them, then fight the bloody stereotype, leave women alone.
Feminists gave up so much throughout history to fight for change, and mostly we had to fight men.
Transactivists appear to me to be too gutless to fight men for changes, or safety in their rightful sports, facilities and spaces, so they trample on womens rights and tell us we are being petty for arguing against the tools, like pronouns, that they are using to strip us of our identity.
So don't come on here and expect us to roll over. We've had generations of this fight for our right to exist as we please, and you honestly think you can persuade us otherwise by scripting which hill you think its appropriate for us to die on.

Yes to all this.
I wish I was this coherent so early in the morning!

This is how I feel too. I hate being asked my gender or pronouns, it’s the assuming that they apply to me. Using DEI speak here it’s exclusionary to those of us who do not subscribe and there should be a different question that yes allows those who want to put this stuff in about themselves, but an equally easy way not to answer

In OPs case I would use the full stop, N/a, or first person ones.

Solidarity. What is it with physics teachers?

(We had 2 for A-level, and one of them.totally ignored the girls in the class for 2 years. Never came.to our table when going round the class, never asked us a question, was unable.to see if we put a hand up. TBF the other one was fantastic and quietly set up lunchtime catchup sessions for us #NotAllPhysicsTeachers.)

I'm not sure whether there's been research specifically on badges, but there has on pronoun introductions in meetings. Announcing your sex at the start of a meeting - even in person, where everyone can see it anyway - increases sexism against women and internalised stereotype threat. Women speak less and are interrupted or ignored more if they remind people that they are women.

Isn’t it amazing that we’re constantly told that they/them is perfectly fine to use for a singular person, even though you know their sex, because we do it all the time when you don’t know if the person is a man or woman yet in these instances they feel they must know.

Also I read recently that many trans people (I think it said) don’t even read the email signature, all that virtue signalling for nothing!