Q, non binary male MEP says rape is a spectrum and has been demonised.

https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/s3/sexual-offences-scotland-bill

https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/public/+/archive2021.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/16835.aspx

'CONSULTATION
173. The main consultation document for this Bill, Consultation on Scottish Law Commission Report on 1rape and sexual offences was issued by the Scottish Government, following Scottishgovt consultation
These documents relate to the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill (SP Bill 11) as introduced in the
Scottish Parliament on 17 June 2008
2publication of the Scottish Law Commission’s (SLC) report on rape and other sexual offences in December 2007. The SLC earlier undertook a public consultation on a discussion paper, seeking views on their emerging findings, in January 2006. The outcome of that consultation helped to inform their final report.'

I think the interviewer makes him look worse as she misunderstands his muddled speech and thinks he is talking about rape being more or less severe. He sort of veers away from that. I think like someone said before he sees everything through a queer theory lens and so boundaries are to be blurred. He also never wants to see a situation black and white and so that’s why there’s focus on the rehabilitation and the experience of the rapist.

This is a good example to show how certain academic courses can diminish, rather than enhance, a person's clarity of thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Offences_(Scotland)_Act_2009

'In 2004, the Scottish Law Commission began working on a reference from the Scottish Executive to "examine the law relating to rape and other sexual offences, and the evidential requirements for proving such offences, and to make recommendations for reform" and completed its report in December 2007.[1] The Scottish Government gave a commitment to bring forward legislation in the light of the commission's review.[2] Before the enactment of this act, Scotland had very few statutory sexual offences, with most of its sexual legislation being defined at common law, which was increasingly seen as a problem.[3]'

'Male rape (male on male assault) is also included in the offence of rape; before this new definition, rape was defined as non-consensual vaginal intercourse imposed by a male against a female.'

Ffs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8092157.stm

'The laws were passed by 121 votes to zero, although Green MSP Patrick Harvie abstained. '

https://www.heraldscotland.com/default_content/12382863.msp-drops-law-change-plea-sex-games/

'MSPs today heard a plea for the fear of prosecution for assault to be lifted from those taking part in consensual bondage, sado-masochism, and similar practices.
The plea came from Green MSP Patrick Harvie who told a Holyrood committee the present law was an "anomaly".
But he dropped a bid to change the law after Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill and other MSPs said lifting the threat of prosecution could provide a loophole for those charged with domestic abuse and sex crimes.
Mr Harvie made his plea when the Justice Committee today scrutinised the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill.
If passed, the Bill will radically overhaul existing law on rape and other sex crimes, and will redefine consent as "free agreement".
Mr Harvie tabled an amendment to the Bill under which the crime of assault would not be committed if consensual acts between those over 16 were carried out for "sexual gratification", if both participants agreed and where serious injury was unlikely.
He said he was tabling the amendment to trigger debate and to enable Mr MacAskill to explain why a change recommended by the Scottish Law Commission was not included in the Bill.
Mr Harvie told MSPs the practices covered by his amendment were known as "BDSM activity", a term which includes bondage, sadism, masochism, dominance and submission.
He accepted the Government feared such a provision could be misused by those accused of domestic abuse.
He argued that if the Government believed BDSM activity between consenting adults was a criminal offence, that was an anomaly.
"All other matters being equal, these situations should not be seen as a priority for prosecution," he said.
"In situations where consent is uncontested, where all the people involved agree there was free and informed consent between them, these should surely not be treated as assaults worthy of prosecution and punishment."
The present law could cause harm of the type once suffered by gay men, said Mr Harvie.
"Many ordinary people who simply have a different kind of sex life to other people can lose their jobs, their homes and their family as a result of public disapproval."'

Not quite sure what I have just skim read!

Will have to come back.

I wonder if there were any FWR threads on this at the time.

I bet he wouldn't be so philosophical about it if he himself was violated in a violent manner
Prize prick!

It sounds like that proposed amendment wasn't passed for fear that domestic abusers would use it as a defence - but domestic abusers do still use that as a defence don't they? You read it in the news sometimes that a man strangles his girlfriend but then claims it was part of consensual sex.

But yeah it's yet another reason not to vote Green, the list is becoming endless

@Datun I imagine he sees verbally coercive rape as less rape than physically violent rape. It isn't.

Rape is always violent. It is per se a violent crime.

Tbf, Patrick Harvie has been very much been one of the good guys on women's rights, hasn't he?

I completely agree. I was trying to understand his mindset. But yes, any unconsenting sex by its very nature constitutes violence.

I was raped in a "minor way", (I'm not going into details, but there was definitely PIV), so probably at the lower end of his "rape spectrum".

I can tell you that the terror of realising firstly that my explanation for not wanting sex was not going to be respected, that he was not going to stop, of being overpowered by his bigger strength, of him ripping my underwear and the rest of it, that rape is rape.

I would not wish sexual assault on anyone, but maybe if he'd had a taste of the fear that he might be raped, as nearly all women have, he would be more circumspect in his remarks.

A slight tangent. I was digging into the history of the Scottish bill, passed in 2008.

Just noted Harvie was at odds with the needs of women way back then, concerned about BDSM enthusiasts over women at risk of DV.

Harvie's legislative interests remind of the legislative interests of Senator Scott Wiener in California 🤔

Looks like he is getting away with it for now.

Scottish Green MSP keeps whip after saying rape exists 'on a spectrum'
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/scottish-greens-refuse-to-withdraw-whip-after-msp-sparks-storm-after-claiming-ra-5HjdfqS_2/

More negative coverage developing though lots of pressure.

Rape crisis centres condemn Green MSP’s rape ‘spectrum’ comments
The Scottish Rape Crisis Alliance warned Q Manivannan not to ‘minimise’ rape as they criticised their comments about ‘demonising rape’.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scottish-conservatives-scottish-scottish-parliament-labour-b3030425.html

Pressure grows on Green leadership to suspend Q Manivannan after rape comments as UN official criticises MSP
Ross Greer and Gillian Mackay have been told they risk sending 'a horrendous message to victims of rape' if they do not take action against the MSP

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/pressure-grows-green-leadership-suspend-37533576

If it was another party he might be in big trouble. The Scottish Greens are old hands at covering up this sort of thing though.

Yes. I expect they have a well worn strategy they get out when one of their candidates has one of these 'accidents'.

GinaDavidson
30m
NEW: Q Manivannan has apologised for use of “abstract language” & “the hurt caused” says “I would never seek to diminish or dismiss any survivor’s experience…
“I am genuinely sorry to everyone who has been distressed… Words matter… and I regret this hurt caused.”

Arf. David Wallace Lockhart has just repeatedly referred to Q as "he" and "him" on Reporting Scotland. Laura Millar valiantly trying to stick with "they/them".

The alternative is that they know they don't have to bother, because their voters are sympathetic or at least prepared to overlook and excuse these comments.

The general excuse is probably that they're a radical party and the establishment is out to undermine them (taking comments out of context, focusing on the 'wrong' things, applying different standards etc. etc.) . In this instance, the specific excuse probably starts with framing his comments as part of a wider discussion about rehabilitation and abolition of the prison system.

As it happens, by most standards I'm ultra-liberal on prison. I reckon that except when there's a direct risk to the public we can probably find cheaper ways to deprive people of most of their liberty and better, cheaper venues and systems for rehabilitation. Leaving plenty of capacity to lock up dangerous offenders, like rapists.

Mr Manivannan is claiming that the clips shared were edited.

In fact from the start people were sharing the full discussion. That is why he looks bad. Because it is bad.

Why on earth did he, a man, think his views on rape were of any interest?
It’s not that his words were ‘taken out of context’,why was he talking about it?
Bet he’s a mate of that man who was put in charge of Edinburgh Rape Centre, who told women to ‘reframe their trauma’
They are both rape apologists, trying to lessen women's experiences.

Not only are both men, both are from India a country in which rape/gang rape is endemic. The number of horrific newspaper reports from India about horrific/brutal rapes that I've read over the years is chilling.

Yes as far as I can see the edited clips made what he said not quite as bad as the full context. I find it hard to believe he didn't know what ' demonised' means. If he doesn't he shouldn't be here doing a PhD in a social science.

More weirdness from Srivatsan Manivannan, or Q Minivan as we call him here in Leith.

He has some strange ideas about women (for transparency, I'm a man, an oldish one at that)

Here are some disturbing thoughts from a lawmaker in our Scottish Parliament - FFS send help!

"It is a perpetual inner struggle of many liberal feminist women to reconcile their calls for strength and independence with their uncomfortable desire for a strong man to take care of them in sickness and in health. They would portray this dissonance as a “preference”. A “preference” for large hands, a “preference” for a tall, fit and handsome man, a “preference” for someone who could take care of them when unwell, a “preference” for a beard, and a “preference” for a baritone voice that’s “sexy”. A “preference” for a certain type of masculinity.

“Sexy” is discriminatory, privilege-driven, and patriarchal. “Sexy” is the well-defined body that only the economically well-endowed can craft with repeated trips to the gym, diets, and whey protein."

https://www.dailyo.in/voices/love-god-masculinity-history-relationships-23682