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Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #62

1000 replies

nauticant · 03/08/2026 18:00

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
Following handing down of the judgment on 8 December 2025, on 11 December 2025, it was announced by Sandie Peggie and her legal team that they would be pursuing an appeal and it was reported on 3 August 2026 that leave to appeal had been granted with an expectation that the appeal proceedings could take place in court early next year (2027).

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
YourWatermelonship · 23/09/2026 13:44

Boiledbeetle · 23/09/2026 12:05

So far I'm getting "Nothing to do with us. Sandie didn't utter certain magic words in a specific order so we were perfectly entitled to treat her like shit."

The complaint that wasn't a complaint. I think that was Darlington

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 13:46

Justabaker · 23/09/2026 13:42

I think that was Tempest. It's part heard resuming in December.

Ah yes, it was. However, my memory is that the interruptions for counsel to take instructions were not during Tempest's own testimony, but related to what Tempest's counsel was about to ask other witnesses? So my question stands - can Naomi take instructions from Sandie during Sandie's evidence? I still think not. But perhaps Naomi can take instruction from Margaret Gribbon, on Sandie's behalf, during Sandie's evidence - is that maybe what happened?

Court is reassembling btw...

nauticant · 23/09/2026 13:46

PersonIrresponsible · 23/09/2026 13:43

What's the case reference number for this case, pleaee?

Seems you can still request access, but I can't find it

Edited

8001209/2025 Sandie Peggie v Royal College of Nursing

OP posts:
nauticant · 23/09/2026 13:47

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 13:46

Ah yes, it was. However, my memory is that the interruptions for counsel to take instructions were not during Tempest's own testimony, but related to what Tempest's counsel was about to ask other witnesses? So my question stands - can Naomi take instructions from Sandie during Sandie's evidence? I still think not. But perhaps Naomi can take instruction from Margaret Gribbon, on Sandie's behalf, during Sandie's evidence - is that maybe what happened?

Court is reassembling btw...

Advocates Assemble

OP posts:
poodlemum01 · 23/09/2026 13:48

fright of my life when the voices came back on LOL

MyAmpleSheep · 23/09/2026 13:49

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 13:46

Ah yes, it was. However, my memory is that the interruptions for counsel to take instructions were not during Tempest's own testimony, but related to what Tempest's counsel was about to ask other witnesses? So my question stands - can Naomi take instructions from Sandie during Sandie's evidence? I still think not. But perhaps Naomi can take instruction from Margaret Gribbon, on Sandie's behalf, during Sandie's evidence - is that maybe what happened?

Court is reassembling btw...

NC can definitely take instruction from her instructing solicitor (MG), that would be quite normal.

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 13:50

Oh, another legal question: what's the significance, if any, of the fact that we have a judge sitting alone this time, not a panel of a judge plus two others?

ProfessorBinturong · 23/09/2026 13:52

Oh yes, I meant to ask about that. Were the panel members recused at the last minute?

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 13:55

From TT:

First afternoon session, Peggie v RCN 23 Sept.
Our coverage from the morning is here: t.co/XwitJp5PjI

DH resumes
DH one point of clarification on SF, the first time you encountered SF was phone call in early Jan 2024. You didn't have an earlier relationship.
SP no
DH one point on your meeting with Neal Hanvey (NH), you met him at a surgery and showed him your suspension letter

SP yes
DH and at that point you wouldn't have shown it to SF? He hadn't had sight of it.
SP I'm not sure
[DH clarifies reference number on email was not membership number but case reference]
DH now on to Gillian Tait (GT). You mentioned several times she was in touch to check

in 2 or 3 times. Is that correct?
SP yes
DH were there not at least 11 occasions - thinking about the period from June through December, GT was in touch by email at least 11 times.
SP I don't recall how many
DH she offered to meet and discuss, you didn't take that up

anyolddinosaur · 23/09/2026 13:56

The non legal members are usually a union person ad someone who is supposed to represent employers. Given that this case involves suing a union maybe inappropriate to have another union person involved and then unbalanced to have an employer type.

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 13:57

Here are some tweets from Nick Wallis' lunchbreak with the bundle

But before I do I just want to set out what is going on as I'm not sure it's clear. In fact if I hadn't interviewed SP before the trial started everything would be as clear as mud and given we're not going to be given any paperwork because of the idiosyncracies of the scottish
tribunal system it's like wading through treacle. I'm going to try to make this my last moan about the legal system today, but how on earth is the public meant to understand what is going on in these courts if we are not allowed to be given
any of the underlying documents which are being discussed. There's no reason not to be given them (certainly not versions redacted for GDPR) other than a latent distaste within the justice system for open justice.
Anyway - I am now sitting with the bundle being watched by a nice lady who is presumably here to stop me doing whatever I'm not meant to be doing.
Oh yes - the case. As i understand it - SP made a claim against NHS Fife and DU for discriminating against her when she objected to DU being in the F CR. When the handling of the disc investigation and "misgendering" charge came along it was thought there might be a...
... second claim against NHS Fife (this might still be live). SP thought RCN should fund this secondary claim and the reason given at the time was that it was an entirely separate claim and folding it into the initial claim would delay it. So...
RCN could/should fund the secondary claim against NHS Fife for allegedly ballsing up the investigation against SP whilst SP and MG and could focus on the initial claim. RCN refused.

They say this is their prerogative for technical reasons which I am sure will get explained in court but might be something to do with SP already getting legal advice about the same matter.
SP says it's because of her sex realist beliefs and that is why RCN are discriminating against her.
Okay so to the bundle - first up - the mysterious letter which the RCN claims to have sent (by email), but which SP says she never received. This is dated 8 Jan 2024 and says to SP "we have opened a case file in your name"...
this is clearly a potential legal case as whilst it is from SF, it references the RCN's legal person Gillian Tait as "supervising this". It asks Peggie if she has any protected characterisitcs (including "sex"). Then is goes on to say...
"In some member cases we may incur costs on your behalf, both in terms of RCN staff time and payments made to experts to advise and verify your claim. We shall pay these costs so long as we continue to represent you...
... Consistent with other Trades Unions and limits set by the courts themselves, there is a set minimum value certain types of claims need to reach before we are able to pursue them....
... if it becomes clear to the local RCN office that your claim has no reasonable prospect of success or you have been made an offer, we feel you should accept, but you wish to continue your claim, our agreement to indemnify you in respect of the above costs may be withdrawn. We may also withdraw our agreement if we feel you are making unreasonable demands on RCN services. These decisions rest with the local RCN office.

If we believe that your case requires a claim to an employment tribunal, we will make a referral for you to RCN legal services to assess whether your case has reasonable prospects of success and meets our minimum value threshold. We will be clear with you around that. If we agreed to support an employment tribunal claim on your behalf, this will involve the ACAW early conciliation process. If we do not agree to support your potential claim, then unfortunately, we will not be able to represent you during early conciliation. We will advise you of the RCN legal services decision as soon as we are able. Further information about early conciliation and time limits can be found on our online advice page: Employment tribunals and the courts.

The RCN has professional indemnity insurance that covers RCN staff and representatives in the event that we are careless in PRO providing you with the service, causing you financial loss."
So it's all very clear here that the RCN is gearing up for a fight on Peggie's behalf. The evidence so far was that this letter was sent to the wrong address and therefore not received by Peggie - whether it might have been deliberately sent to the wrong address or even
something more sinister simply is not known. The q as to whether it might have landed in SP's spam was asked this morning, but she couldn't answer.
Okay this is from MG's attendance note to a meeting with NP on 13 Feb 2024 p334 of the bundle:

"MG on attending Norman Provan of the RCN. Providing Norman with background information in relation to my clients case. Norman seems sympathetic to my client's plight and said he would send relevant policy documents in relation to rules regarding suspension. I advised Norman that my Firm view was that there was an industrial strategic role for the trade union to perform here not withstanding the fact that legal support is not being provided. I told him that a legal claim was likely to be raised. Norman confirmed that the union would continue to represent Sandy and he confirmed that Stuart Fraser is a full-time officer."

Sandy Peggie and NHS five brackets (R1) and Dr Beth Upton (R2) case number 4104864/2024.

I refer to previous correspondence in connection with the above case and write with reference to the ongoing disciplinary investigation. There is a matter which is pertinent to the investigation and which my client is so far not disclosed to R1 or her union because it is one which causes her distress.

It had been my client's intention to share this information at the meeting on the 10th of May 2024, but she did not do so. I now, however, have my client's instructions to disclose this information to R1 and the RCN for the purposes of the ongoing investigation.

My client felt that she had no choice to inform her to how uncomfortable she was with R2's presence in the female only work changing rooms on the 24th/25th of December 2023 because it was apparent to her that R1 was unwilling to act on the concerns she had previously raised regarding men being allowed access to female only spaces.

One of the reasons my client is so uncomfortable about having to share a changing room with males is because on or about 1998, when she was aged 17, she was sexually assaulted on several occasions by her GP.

My client never told anyone about these sexual assaults and only disclose them for the first time around 20 years later to friends. To be clear the basis of my client's legal claims is that mentioned should not be permitted to access single sex basis for the reasons contained in the ET one.

However, it is felt important to explain the extent of my clients discomfort about R2's presence for the purposes of the ongoing investigation. Can you please confirm that it will prompt forward this email in confidence to disciplinary investigation officer?

The RCN has also been copied into this email as they continued to represent my client in the ongoing disciplinary process.

Thank you very much for your assistance."

This is the email from NP to SF on 20 Jan 2025 telling SF the RCN is not going to fund SP's case. p408 of the bundle:

"Hi Stuart

I have reviewed this request. There are a number of issues which are problematic in relation to the RCN providing legal support in this instance.

The issue is inextricably linked to her already scheduled employment tribunal. In her email, Sandie's solicitor states that they want the RCN to raise this as a separate ET as it is too late to add it to the existing case which is scheduled to be heard in February.

Although I accept it will be inconvenient to reschedule her employment tribunal to allow time for this new element to be added, doing so feels like a logical action to ensure all linked elements of Sanie's [sic] case are Heard together.

In addition you will be aware that the RCN legal officer does not extend to covering issues on which a member has received legal advice from another party. It is clear from Margaret's email that Sandie has discussed this additional element with her solicitor and with Council [sic] on that basis it is not within my discretion to go beyond our legal offer and offer legal support in this case.

Can you therefore go back to the member and advise that we cannot provide legal support in this case. It will of course be important that you advise of the time bar issues which are in place and suggest that Sandie should discuss with a legal representatives either postponing her scheduled ET to allow this additional element to be added or alternatively for her current legal provider to raise the second action separately on her behalf as they suggested we might ddo [sic]
Rregards.

Norman Provan"
Okay last one I've got time to do before we call go back in for the afternoon session. This is the notes by SF of his call with SP on either 5 or 8 Jan 2024. I will ignore the spelling:

"called to member to discuss situation, member described that new doctor has started and they are a trans female and this has made members of staff uncomfortable as they are using the female changing area, member had discussed her discomfort with this, with her Line manager however nothing was done, member was in a level of discomfort due to bleeding and the DR was in the changing room, the member advised the DR that she did not think that she should be in there and said something along the lines of this is the same as when they put a man in a female prison, discussed with the member of the potential that this could be seen as discriminatory and is most likely what has caused the suspension. Discussed with member process of investigation and potential outcomes, et cetera advised will open case."

ProfessorBinturong · 23/09/2026 13:58

The more I think about the RCN file date, the odder it seems.

To have raised it, NC must be planning to bring that up with RCN witnesses and must therefore suspect something more significant that a mis-naming of the file. But why would anyone go to the RCN earlier? A complaint about SP would go to the employer first, not the union. Until the complaint has been made there's nobody in a nursing role requiring union support. Upton and the HR people would be in different unions. I can't make sense of it at all.

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 13:58

From TT:

at any time
SP no
DH so all written communication she had on the case, was via your solicitor
SP yes
DH so not for want of trying she didn't have the opportunity to have a conversation with you about her case, did she
SP No, she did not

DH she was in contact with Fife though and in contact with David Miller, head of HR.
SP yes
DH this was in response requests GT was receiving from MG, not to GT but to NP at the RCN. You would have seen and approved this letter
SP yes

ickky · 23/09/2026 14:00

ProfessorBinturong · 23/09/2026 13:58

The more I think about the RCN file date, the odder it seems.

To have raised it, NC must be planning to bring that up with RCN witnesses and must therefore suspect something more significant that a mis-naming of the file. But why would anyone go to the RCN earlier? A complaint about SP would go to the employer first, not the union. Until the complaint has been made there's nobody in a nursing role requiring union support. Upton and the HR people would be in different unions. I can't make sense of it at all.

If a complaint had been made on Christmas Eve to the RCN, it could only be two people.

I think I know which one I would put money on complaining.

ProfessorBinturong · 23/09/2026 14:02

anyolddinosaur · 23/09/2026 13:56

The non legal members are usually a union person ad someone who is supposed to represent employers. Given that this case involves suing a union maybe inappropriate to have another union person involved and then unbalanced to have an employer type.

But normally it's someone suing an employer. They have an employer panel member (and balancing union) for those, so should have a union menber (and balancing employer) for union cases.

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 14:03

From TT:

DH interested in 2nd page, 'SP is asking union to add weight to her request to have no men in women's CR, asking her employer to act lawfully'. This is reference to FWS Supreme Court case.

SP yes
DH that request was repeated in July, email between MG and RCN solicitors

and again an email from SP to GT directly where you repeat the request. Saying it's very clear what you want from RCN. We see that GT responds to your email, is that right?
SP yes
DH part of the response is GT saying barriers to returning, a significant barrier being lack of

clarification on who might be present in female CR. GT agrees and says she can write to them and asks for details to do so.
SP - yes
DH here, we see that GT is pushing that question despite you saying they were doing nothing on this point.

SP yes

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 14:07

From TT:

DH so she wrote to them on 7 Aug 2025, with that request. Do you accept that she is there doing what she would do? Access to single sex changing and toilet facilities based on biological sex.
SP yes
DH She seems to be putting some pressure on, sets a deadline, goes on to say

it is imperative that she (SP) is pressing the board, do you accept that?
SP yes
DH next request GT receives, your next email to GT is on 29 Aug, after David Miller has responded to GT without much if any detail, GT sent on to you. She was keeping you up to date with what she was

getting from NHS Fife. You accept that.
SP yes
DH you send an email with 3 numbered points you want GT to raise; ability of staff to discuss concerns around female spaces without negative consequences, the right to hold gc beliefs protected like any other characteristic and

Scout2016 · 23/09/2026 14:09

Has anyone been out and able to rejoin please? Lost connection now I'm back wftchtj but have been for 40 minutes.

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 14:10

From Nick Wallis

[court is back in session]

J so we'll continue with xe - thank you, Mr Hay
DH just a couple of qs before we get to interactions with Gillian Tait (GT). Re one point with SF - most of your interaction with RCN was SF, NP or GT
SP yes
DH was there any contact you'd had with SF before the Jan 2024 phone convo
SP no
DH when you spke with your MP Mr Hanvey you met him at a surgery
SP yes
DH and you took along your letter of suspension and you said he was angry
SP yes
DH and it follows that SF would not have had sight of that letter by 5 or 8 of Jan
SP yes
DH I put to you that the email which was sent to you was your RCN membership number - I think it was your case reference number
J do you want to put that to the witness
DH no she won't know as she didn't see it - i just want to correct it for the record
[he moves on]
DH you were asked a q by my learned friend [NC] about the support you got from the RCN and you said GT contacted you a couple of times to check, in but there was no push by the RCN on establishing single sex facilities - two or three times?
SP yes

DH from 7 June 2025 to 22nd Dec 2025 there were at least 11 occasions when GT got in touch with you by email
SP that may well have been
DH she suggested having a chat or a meeting to discuss your case on 11 occasions - remember that
SP yes
DH and you opted not to do that at all
SP yes
DH so GT was just responding to emails from you and those sent on your behalf by MG
SP yes
DH and accordingly not for want of trying GT did not have an oppo to be able to have a convo with you about your case and what you'd be looking for from it re support - do you accept that?
SP yes
DH that's occasions where GT was getting in contact with you - but you'd be aware she was getting in contact with your employer including David Miller (DM) who was then head of HR at NHS Fife
SP yes
DH and this contact was suggested at the behest of requests GT received from June 2025 - and if we turn to p431 [of the bundle] we have a letter there from MG to NP 10 June 2025 which you presumably would have seen and approved
SP yes
DH and on p432 which is the second page of this letter I can see that it says [quotes from letter - re SP wanting RCN to write to the FHB to seek assurances there will only be single sex changing rooms on the basis of the then relatively recent For Womens Scotland Supreme Court..
... decision]. That is then repeated. If we go to p446 - this is an email chain between your sol and the RCN sol and if we go to the email at the bottom we see an email from MG to Ms Forrest [who is sitting directly in front of me] the request that RCN writes to FHB...
... and deals with her request of May 2025 and June 2025 [ie single sex spaces]. Then there is a letter directly from you on the same matter to the RCN (p449). Then on p450 there is a response from GT to you summarising your unfitness and barriers to you returning and sig part...
... of that would be who had access to the CR and GT says she can "certainly" write to the Board to seek clarification. Earlier today you said RCN wasn't giving you any support "at all" - your words - we can see that GT was pushing on your behalf. Accept?
SP yes

DH let's go to 7 August 2025 - this is the email she does send - doing what she said she would do raising issues of single sex facilities based on "biological sex" - that's the language she uses. "it is imperative that SP receives this assurance before she returns" see that
SP yes
DH so it looks like she is pressing that point for you - would you accept it
SP on this occasion yes
DH then next email to GT on 29 Aug 2025 and that's after DM has responded to GT with little or no detail which she forwarded on to you...

... so she was keeping you in the loop.
SP yes
DH Your email is p457 to p460 and we see the requests you are making of GT and we see the numbered points you want her to raise 1. [?] 2. accept GC beliefs are protected 3. in light of FWS ruling that single sex facilities are not

to be accessed by biological men. Then at the top of p460 you ask the union to send a copy of the letter to me and all people employed by the board so that we can see you are fighting for our rights. So a fourth request.
SP yes

DH and at p463 we have GT emailing DM of NHS Fife on 5 Sep 2025 and if we look at par 4 which begins "can you please confirm that..." that covers your q3 that single sex facilities will not be accessed by anyone other than those by bio sex
SP yes

ProfessorBinturong · 23/09/2026 14:10

ickky · 23/09/2026 14:00

If a complaint had been made on Christmas Eve to the RCN, it could only be two people.

I think I know which one I would put money on complaining.

But the union doesn't deal with complaints. This is why I'm confused.

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 14:11

From TT:

that single sex facilities for women must exclude all men, even with a GRC. Correct?
SP yes
DH and you ask that they send the letter to NHS Fife making all this points, yes
SP Yes
DH GT emails David Miller, NHS Fife, and copies you, there's a para 'can you confirm that'

it contains your point 3, single sex crs?
SP yes
DH also says staff should be able to discuss without negative consequences, do you see that
SP yes
DH and are staff with GC beliefs protected under the EA, that was your second numbered question
SP yes

DH you would have seen this email after it was sent, you were copied,
SP yes
DH you didn't write to GT and say you weren't happy with how she expressed things,
SP no
DH the only thing GT didn't do is copy the email to all RCN members at NHS Fife.

SP yes

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 14:14

From TT:

DH I asked you, you accepted that you hadn't contacted GT about the terms that she used, and you didn't ask her why not copied to all RCN members
SP no
DH, you're not a lawyer, is the head of your claim concerning the actions of GT that she did not copy all NHS Fife RCN members

SP yes
DH some of the other support you were getting from GT, occasions that GT would express dissatisfaction at the responses from DM?
SP I can't remember
DH we see the email on this page, 21 Oct 2025, 2nd para, GT is considering response from DM as unhelpful, lacks specifics

Boiledbeetle · 23/09/2026 14:17

Scout2016 · 23/09/2026 14:09

Has anyone been out and able to rejoin please? Lost connection now I'm back wftchtj but have been for 40 minutes.

There's quite a few people waiting in the lobby. The clerk must be off doing something else.

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 14:18

From TT:

is unclear
SP yes
DH email from GT 4 Nov 2025, an expression of an intent to press DM, on this matter, can you see that
SP yes
DH 4 Dec 2025, GT expressing disagreement with DM, that your return to work should await the outcome of your first claim

SP yes
DH an email to you from GT, 'situation entirely unsatisfactory not to have a resolution, hindering a return to work'. This is correspondence she is having with you, forwarding on correspondence with DM, keeping you in the loop,
SP yes

DH when you said that RCN was not pushing NHS Fife to resolve the CR issue, that wasn't right.
SP I did believe that until GT took over from SF nothing much had happened
DH but your claim is focused on what GT did, and she was pressing on this, perhaps not to your total

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