Girls Using Walking Sticks

I haven’t said ME has a psychological cause. I said that’s what FND ultimately is. And I said there are people with diagnoses of other things that likely have FND. If ME and FND are different conditions, then it should be clear what the differences are. Of course both are real. Where have I said they aren’t? I have pointed out that FND is both psychological and very real.

MG is a definable condition with a test. If doctors aren’t diagnosing it it’s a problem with awareness of that condition and the available test. It doesn’t remove the reality of FND as a diagnosis for people in general. How many tests and procedures should a person have before it’s concluded they have FND? How many MRIs, lumbar punctures, repeated blood tests, multiple specialist opinions, etc? There has to be a line in the sand drawn when endless pursuit of another answer has to cease because it’s causing harm.

MG is a definable condition with a test. And yet many people were misdiagnosed with FND because actually there are new antibodies causing MG still being discovered. So historically people were told they didn't have it and their symptoms were psychological when in fact they did- the tests just hadn't been developed yet . So I would recommend an incredibly cautious approach to suggesting very real physical symptoms have a psychological cause just because you can't work out what is causing them. It feels like an embarrassing medieval way to practice medicine

On the contrary, modern medicine is part of the problem. The suggestion that there must be a physical cause that we will find with either current tests or soon-to-be developed new tests because we are oh so clever now means treating the actual problem gets delayed. Look at the story of the girl I posted earlier. Years of people doing supposedly clever things with modern medicine, which ultimately harmed her. Which is more medieval, invasive procedures in ICU that she didn’t need, or someone realising the real issue well before all that and putting a stop to it?

Thanks for sharing. The BBC have clearly "translated" younger adults (which the under 50s are in cancer terms) to younger people which I took to be much younger than is actually the case!

And yet look at all the people made better through modern medicine.

Its a bizarre psychology to want to strenuously insist very real physical struggles must in fact be psychological.

Where have I strenuously said that? I have said repeatedly that FND is a very real physical issue. But it unequivocally has its root cause in a higher psychological process.

Of course people are made better by modern medicine 🙄. Where have I said differently? But in the case of FND, if modern medicine leads to endless pursuit of a diagnosis that doesn’t and will never exist, that is harmful. A strength of modern medicine should be knowing when to not do things.

I could equally say your strenuous denial of the existence of FND and its underdiagnosis driven by your own experience of a rare neurological condition is also bizarre psychology. But I’m sure that’s not what’s going on here is it?

FND exists. FND can lead to significant physical (real) symptoms and disability. Many of these girls and women with newly acquired walking sticks will have a FND. Do you disagree?

The question is, why?

Post-covid POTS, ME and COS are indeed a trend. As is being on a waiting list for treatment for years.

I know someone who was rushed from his uni digs to Intensive Care the eighth time he caught covid. He had an abscess on his lung, and now has POTS. He claims no benefits and is a medical student.

Plus: the younger gens are admirably positive about disability. My mum only started using a stick in her mid-80s after several falls, despite the pleadings of her GP. She equates visible disability with shame. Young people do not.

And: when you become a parent, the world is suddenly full of buggies (I forget the name of this, it's basically Notice and You'll See It Everywhere Syndrome).

it's not a trend. Lots of young people are in genuine need of help, have been failed by the NHS and aren't ashamed of using aids.

Stock's ableism is breathtaking. And completely unsurprising in someone so bigoted.

Im afraid I'm losing the thread of your overall argument in all the details.

We seem to be back at girls with 'unnecessary' walking sticks. But if they have a genuine condition, FND (we don't know this, its conjecture) - then you yourself said upthread because of the nature of the condition we can't just say 'you don't need that now, you're better!- - their brain believes they do. So the walking stick is necessary.

So, and I admit I may be getting confused, it seems that these 'unnecessary ' walking sticks aren't then unnecessary?

Which brings me back to my point - I don't like speculating about individuals and why they may be using mobility aids. I don't like that this thread is encouraging people to do that. I don't like that are there are probably multiple lurkers who may take away the message that 'those girls with walking sticks have some mental problem and don't need them, it's definitely true, i read it on mumsnet, those people who can walk a bit but use a wheelchair sometimes are probably the same'

Regarding ME and GET - you didn't explain why you are qualified to encourage people to ignore NICE guidelines? I note the Guardian article, but I'll stick to following the advice of my consultant and team, all of whom have advised GET to be dangerous (the guardian article isn't actually saying that GET is safe, but that a little exercise is OK if your body can tolerate this. Of course movement is great, if you can do it safely. This is very much not the same as GET though, where you increase activity and push through, no matter how it feels/ what the result is).

What did you think of Stocks comments on Assisted Dying being strangely illiberal, in that its usually argued for by people who would describe themselves as politically liberal, yet involves a hitherto unprecedented intrusion of the state into private life?

Very interesting, I thought. No signs of bigotry either.

Edit for typo

then you yourself said upthread because of the nature of the condition we can't just say 'you don't need that now, you're better!- - their brain believes they do. So the walking stick is necessary.
So, and I admit I may be getting confused, it seems that these 'unnecessary ' walking sticks aren't then unnecessary?

Unnecessary in the bigger picture. They don’t have a permanent disability that can’t be overcome that needs a walking stick. It should have been unnecessary for them to need one in the first place if they’d been handled properly from the beginning. They need to appreciate they are ultimately unnecessary. Do they? Because if they think the walking sticks are something they’ll never relinquish then that’s a problem. If the walking stick is a necessary means to an end to treat the actual problem then that’s fine.

I don't like that this thread is encouraging people to do that. I don't like that are there are probably multiple lurkers who may take away the message that 'those girls with walking sticks have some mental problem and don't need them, it's definitely true, i read it on mumsnet, those people who can walk a bit but use a wheelchair sometimes are probably the same'

No, this thread is pointing out the reality that there are people with functional disorders, fictitious disorders, social contagion, or just blatant fraudulent behaviour who are appropriating disability as part of a cultural phenomenon making it harder for real disability to stand out and get the support it needs. It’s these people that are the problem, not the people that can spot them.

Regarding ME and GET - you didn't explain why you are qualified to encourage people to ignore NICE guidelines?

I didn’t encourage people to ignore NICE guidelines. I pointed out there are a huge number of highly qualified people who disagree with NICE and your consultant’s position on GET. I pointed out it’s a disputed position. The fact you have directly discussed it with your consultant proves this. This was in the context of it being suggested that someone getting a false diagnosis of FND instead of actually ME would be “dangerous” because they’d be recommended GET when that can’t be accurate if GET has no consensus position.

I agree entirely with the Stock article. I think it’s long overdue.

The association between ME/CFS and PoTS is a good example of over-diagnosis. Any teen/young adult who, after getting a CFS diagnosis and then literally does no exercise and barely gets up for weeks and months will become unfit and deconditioned. This will result in bursts of tachycardia when they move and sudden drops on BP when they change position. As Stock states, this is expected physiology, not a disorder.

The question is - why do so many young women/girls want to be diagnosed with a disorder? Why is a POTs diagnosis preferred to “after 3 months of barely leaving the house and mainly lying down you have become weak and deconditioned”?

There have been many reports in the MSM (sharetoken below)
over the last few years and there is loads on pubmed about it if you look, like this paper from September 2025 (pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12446525/) javascript: It's particularly pronounced in bowel and pancreatic cancer and the overall increase has hit women harder than men probably due to breast cancer and also thyroid.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/33c3bef2-5f85-4240-bfad-15a657f878c8?shareToken=4aa472f776bd201f23c94060c1bf6edf&ver=article

Thanks

She's about 1 year late! Or maybe the trend has become more widespread in certain areas. I posted in reply to this thread in July 2025 as there was a time when I'd go to Central London (think Covent Garden / Leicester Square) and it was like a Lourdes pilgrimage for the number of young girls walking around with sticks. I certainly haven't seen as many this summer (Aug 2026) as the previous year.

Regarding 'speculating' my thoughts are this: If 'speculating' makes you feel uncomfortable, then don't do it... and if you want to speculate, then speculate.

I don't think we need to police people in what they can and can't think (seems to be another modern trend).

I really wouldn't bank on that happening tbh. A lot of people have little consideration for anyone else never mind anyone with a disability. There are sunflower lanyards for invisible disabilities anyway.

I absolutely agree that trends are worth commenting on and examining.

Im not suggesting any thought policing.

I am merely asking for a bit of consideration for disabled people in how those conversations take place though as we can be directly impacted in a negative way by discussions such as this. Especially when some pp upthread seem determined to suggest that people are managing to self ID into getting benefits (ha, as if!) or tar all invisible illnesses/ people that self ID as having one with the same brush and suggest that we're basically all malingering, and that there's not enough evidence that rest will help (so we should what? All jump up and go for a run? I'm not sure what's being suggested tbh but none of it sounds positive and like we're being told we're 'doing disability wrong').

Being able bodied is temporary. Unless we drop dead relatively young, we will all be disabled in the end. Something worth considering. Disability isn't something that just happens to other (defective) people.

I think the research into GET/muscle fibre changes/2 day CPET testing was by Prof Todd Davenport.

Just a couple of tips:
Don't die your hair a very bright 'zany' colour
Don't make your disabilities into your whole personality.

Then no-one will think twice about you having a stick.

I don't dye my hair crazy colours but comments like that make me want to.

One thing I have found since finally finding the courage to use a wheelchair or stick so I can live life more fully is that I now no longer care if people judge me or stare at me... So I can see why more disabled people choose to do things like dye their hair. When you lose control over your body and how others perceive you it's nice to exert that control in other ways.

I don't make my disability my whole personality, but it is a very dominant force in my life as can affect everything from movement to speaking and swallowing and vision and even breathing. So it's impossible for me to hide it away or pretend it is a minor inconvenience to suit the sensitivities of others. It's reshaped my life, stolen so many much loved hobbies, and forced me to change career direction (and I am one of the lucky ones as I am least able to work full time from home and earn good money doing so)

Absolute spoofer. She’s ‘queer’ too, despite having a boyfriend. 🙄

Possibly one boring factor is that the NHS is harder to access, so people struggling to walk may just start using sticks without seeing a physio.

In my experience, physios are actually quite cautious about recommending them — it's not simply “if it helps, use one”, but whether it's helpful long-term, which needs proper assessment.

I'm recovering from ankle surgery for example and have actually been advised not to use one, as appropriate weight-bearing is important for recovery and aids can alter your gait or lead to over-reliance. Same as when I lost half my balance function.

R.e. "shame factor" I would say it's for me far harder socially once I waa told to stop using crutches and had an invisible condition. All sorts of stuff: getting a seat on the bus, people expecting you to side step out their way, having to sit down in random locations...my favourite being a pile of compost outside Aldi!w

There are lots of straw man arguments on this thread. Many of the ideas being positioned as opposing arguments can be true at the same time - and acknowledging this does not need to undermine the other.

It is a good thing for those with disabilities to access and use aids that support them and for stigma / concern around doing so to decline. It is not a good thing if/when people without disabilities cos play having disabilities because this serves a function unrelated to having a disability. It is also not a good thing for people failing to have their condition diagnosed and, as a result, failing to access needed treatment/ support.

I am without doubt that there is a phenomenon whereby some young people desire elements of disability and/or incorrectly self- diagnose disabling conditions. This is dysfunctional behaviour and it is important to seek to understand what underpins it. My go-to position is there is likely some unmet need that they don’t properly understand / recognise. For some, a history of abuse or neglect might account for it. For others, a mental health condition (likely a personality disorder) might account. Some may be struggling with their identity, sense of self, social lives, unemployment….the list goes on.

Life is tough for lots of people and many develop dysfunctional behaviour in response. Within this, there is a point about resilience and expectation about what counts as adversity.

How would one even "make their disability their whole personality?"
It reads "be disabled, but don't talk about it too much, or make it too visible.
Blend into the background, don't be having your hair too brightly coloured otherwise it's very "look at me"."
It's a round about, outdated view that says people to hide away if they're disabled, or not talk about it, or just not be "in people's faces" with it. 😓😡

In the same way that people who are e.g. vegans or marathon runners make it their whole personality, i.e. nothing else to talk about, bang on about it for hours to anyone who will listen, etc.

Dye your hair WHATEVER FUCKING COLOUR YOU WANT.

Say & do WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT.

Tell judgmental arseholes who expect you to conform to their narrow view of life TO FUCK RIGHT OFF.

Fixed it 👌

Absolutely none of the vegans I've ever known were like this in the slightest. They just ate lunch.

Performative carnivores, on the other hand...