US threatens permanent visa bans on trans athletes based on sex markers

I suppose they could pat down someone who claims to be female, but who they suspect of having a concealed weapon on their person.

See, this is the whole problem with having official documents that reflect philosophical beliefs. Your name, DOB, sex marker are all objective facts - you could have changed your legal name I suppose, but the rest should be immutable.

But philosophical belief? Tibetan Buddhists believe the disincarnate souls of holy lamas wander the earth looking for a child to reincarnate in. You can't prove that's not true. But you've only got my word for it that I'm the Dalai Lama.

I am sooo looking forward to new episodes of US border control.

Exactly, it's fraud just like lying about any of the other facts required. Just a bit more obvious if you're lying than - for example - if you'd ever been convicted of a crime, had illegal fruit in your luggage or had specific communicable diseases.

Obviously people are free to try and commit the crime of visa fraud and get away with it with the caveat FAFO tends to apply to US immigration.

I suppose if they believe they pass and the documents all lie convincingly then they can take their chances.

Aren't visitors still occasionally patted down by American border security? If a male lies that he's female and is searched by a female customs officer, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes if his lie is then discovered.

They'd be refused at whichever part of the process revealed then to be committing visa fraud. Could be any point.

So they would be refused at border control rather than during the application process. Bet a few people won't be visiting America in the next few years just in case (IW springs to mind)

I guess they'd use their eyes.

Yes. If their own country lets them lie on their passport, other countries don't have to accept it.

It's visa fraud. Applying as a woman if you are a man...it's fraud.

I think what I'm asking is how the hell would the US know if someone with a grc applied for a visa in their gender rather than birth sex since a new indistinguishable birth certificate is issued

As passports are a way to verify identity it's important they contain factual information. Otherwise what really is the point!
Time to go back to reality and I wonder who really wants identity documents to be false? (A certain MRA group?).

The UK does not require a GRC to get a passport in the opposite sex (bonkers but anyhoo) so I don't see how having a GRC would prevent a person getting a passport in their birth sex. However a GRC is supposedly irreversible (I think Keira Bell mentioned she can't change some records back to F). It's a mess.

If someone has a GRC would that not bypass this because they could present a birth certificate in their new gender not their natal sex

The threads that you have been linking to. First Alejandra Caraballo and later Erin Reed have form 're Cass for spreading misinformation. Are they credible sources for commentary on this?

I cannot stand Trump a misogynistic criminal who sees Gaza as a development opportunity.

Who sees the Ukraine as a chance to own minerals.

Who sees Canada and Greenland as potential territories.

I worry about the lurch towards popularism which is about despots inciting mob mentality

yet here I sit, popcorn in hand watching with a certain amount of glee, the havoc this man will inflict on the so called social justice movement.

And how wonderful it is that if America sneezes we all catch a cold.

I am, i think a free thinking femoanarchist now.

Hope that is okay.

There's a -semi- famous trans actor (male) who send off his passport as he lost his current one that he was listed as female on.

He selected female on the new passport again but when it arrived he is listed as male.

Trump has balls.

No, as long as ‘the correct sex marker’ ( = sex recorded at birth) is on the visa application.

How would the immigration officer know that the sex on the passport is different from the sex on the birth certificate if someone had had good enough surgery to make themselves look like the opposite sex?

What are they going to do about American trans people who have changed their passports? I believe Trump has said that passports must show biological sex which is affecting new applications, but are they voiding existing passports?

president directed the homeland security secretary, Kristi Noem, to deny visas to “men attempting to fraudulently enter the United States while identifying themselves as women athletes” during the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles

The visa thing is a work around in terms of the Olympics. But are they able to prevent Americans participating if the sports governing bodies allow it? Is there a separate law covering this, or will American transwomen now just not have international competition?

If someone has a GRC can they even get a passport in their actual sex? I suppose in some countries with self id it shouldn't be a problem except for the bureaucracy and the cost.

I have to say I didn't anticipate this but it does make sense, it is consistent.

Definitely.

Particularly anything to do with E. Reed.

I think on this board many of us would rather see what we're clicking on, thanks.

I'm happy to hear this although, as PP says, they need to decide what they're going to do about people with DSDs as well.

'Trans athletes' - but not the likes of Imane Khelif who is officially female and has that on their passport, which was enough for the Olympics to allow IK to take part in the women's boxing tournament.

If the Olympics don't get their act together and introduce a proper test, this move by the US wouldn't stop IK etc. participating in the women's sports at the next Olympics..

If you’re travelling to a foreign country then you accept and follow their laws- period. If you don’t accept or want to follow a law then you shouldn’t travel there.

In this case I agree with the rule that passports should show biological sex and not gender and if a trans person does not agree then they have a right to boycott the Olympics. How many athletes does this affect anyway?

"I do get the sense that many seem to regard their passports and other official documents as primarily role play props."

yes.

And that they think that they should have control over their identification documents being issued by their government that should have always just stated the immutable factual information attached to a name. Someone has told a group of people that they should have control over how governments treat factual information.