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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Appeal on whether NB can be recorded on a GRC - dismissed

53 replies

Justme56 · 25/02/2025 12:47

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Castellucci-v-Gender-Recognition-Panel.pdf

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UtopiaPlanitia · 26/02/2025 15:10

lcakethereforeIam · 26/02/2025 00:09

Aperture science! 🤢

Genderism’s attitude to medicine has a LOT in common with GLaDOS’ attitude to ‘science’ - who cares how badly injured someone is if the experiments are cool and at least some of us benefit from them and “there’s no use crying over every mistake” 🤷‍♀️ Yup, the cake is definitely a lie.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/02/2025 13:17

Merrymouse · 26/02/2025 09:32

"It's as much a part of her physical and emotional sense of self as the feel of her breathing and the tension in her shoulders."

For me, the whole point is that I have to live with my female reproductive system regardless of whether I feel it is part of my sense of self.

Periods, pregnancy, miscarriage, menopause, female specific illnesses - I have very limited control over these things. When I have control, e.g. contraception, it depends completely on external services that can be withdrawn.

That 'fully functioning vagina' description is a bit of an aha moment for me. For men the consequence of sex is status and the role of reproductive organs is limited to sex, therefore this man can't see further than ego affirmation and sex.

I am however flummoxed that this description would be used in court.

To clarify, I didn't mean "sense of self" in the mystical inner genderwoo celebrate myself way, I meant awareness of my own body. My sense of myself as a physical living entity, and the sensations I experience in and from of my body being part of my experience of being me.

SlipperyLizard · 26/02/2025 13:07

RedToothBrush · 25/02/2025 22:04

Nope. Officially we can say there are just two genders in the UK.

Now we can get on with the job of realising that actually gender just means boring old gender stereotypes and that sex is not gender.

Maybe then people will wake up to how we codified gender stereotypes into law and the problem with that will dawn on them.

I’m a solicitor and many template documents have words along the lines of “a reference to one gender includes a reference to the other genders” in the boilerplate. In the olden days it would have said something like “references to the masculine includes the feminine” but that’s too binary these day.

If I didn’t need to keep my job I’d be tempted to ask someone to explain how many other genders there are, what they are all called, and why this has any impact on the interpretation of a legal document given that English law only recognises male & female.

ditalini · 26/02/2025 12:58

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Helleofabore · 26/02/2025 12:35

eatfigs · 26/02/2025 12:17

If he slaps a pair of dentures in there would that make it a fully-functional mouth?

Too much!! Brain exploded!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/02/2025 12:32

If he slaps a pair of dentures in there would that make it a fully-functional mouth?

Probably, same logic isn't it! Envy not envy

ErrolTheDragon · 26/02/2025 12:30

Merrymouse · 26/02/2025 11:49

Just want to edit this a bit:

That 'fully functioning vagina' description is a bit of an aha moment for me. For men the consequence of being a sex is status and the role of reproductive organs is limited to the act of sex, therefore this man can't see further than ego affirmation and the act of sex.

(Perhaps there is an argument for having different words for 'sex' and 'sex'...)

Well yes, that's probably the main reason 'gender' started to be used as a euphemism for sex in the first place.

Even the act part though...surely anyone who thinks a skin-lined tube is a 'fully functioning vagina' obviously hasn't had any experience from either perspective of a female orgasm?Confused

eatfigs · 26/02/2025 12:17

If he slaps a pair of dentures in there would that make it a fully-functional mouth?

FlowchartRequired · 26/02/2025 11:56

Oh yes, some have even admitted that their definition of a 'woman' is essentially 'someone who is fucked'. The "dead eyes, open mouth and expectant arsehole" or the penetrated rather than the penetrator, if you prefer.

Merrymouse · 26/02/2025 11:49

Just want to edit this a bit:

That 'fully functioning vagina' description is a bit of an aha moment for me. For men the consequence of being a sex is status and the role of reproductive organs is limited to the act of sex, therefore this man can't see further than ego affirmation and the act of sex.

(Perhaps there is an argument for having different words for 'sex' and 'sex'...)

Datun · 26/02/2025 11:24

Merrymouse · 26/02/2025 09:32

"It's as much a part of her physical and emotional sense of self as the feel of her breathing and the tension in her shoulders."

For me, the whole point is that I have to live with my female reproductive system regardless of whether I feel it is part of my sense of self.

Periods, pregnancy, miscarriage, menopause, female specific illnesses - I have very limited control over these things. When I have control, e.g. contraception, it depends completely on external services that can be withdrawn.

That 'fully functioning vagina' description is a bit of an aha moment for me. For men the consequence of sex is status and the role of reproductive organs is limited to sex, therefore this man can't see further than ego affirmation and sex.

I am however flummoxed that this description would be used in court.

I am however flummoxed that this description would be used in court.

same. I want someone to say in what way is it functional?

Let's hear the misogyny.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/02/2025 09:33

There is a legitimate feminist case for wanting a sex-neutral title to be available (other than earning the right to Dr) - it comes up regularly in threads about Miss/Mrs/Ms . I've never heard of a woman making that sort of ruction and apparently wanting to punish a company rather than trying to get them to change their policy in a more civil manner though.

Merrymouse · 26/02/2025 09:32

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/02/2025 00:20

It is glaringly obvious to women that this is a male's external perception of a vagina as a passive orifice.

Leaving aside that a natural vagina is a passage not a dead end (1), no woman who thought about it for more than a moment would recognise Ryan's idea of a "vagina" in the her own experience. That these men (male NBs and trans women) apparently do consider such an orifice a vagina in itself gives lie to their claim to be "women" or "non-binary". (By their actions shall ye know them indeed)

A woman's vagina is muscular. It clenches and relaxes as her body moves and in response to emotional and physical stimulae. It's as much a part of her physical and emotional sense of self as the feel of her breathing and the tension in her shoulders. Over time she experiences changes in mucus, scent and shape that correspond to her aging and the events of her life.

(1) post hysterectomy a natural vagina may become a dead end but it does not start out that way, and a statistically tiny number of women with DSDs that result in a vagina but no uterus do not invalidate the experience of several billion female humans whose development follows the standard pathway.

Edited

"It's as much a part of her physical and emotional sense of self as the feel of her breathing and the tension in her shoulders."

For me, the whole point is that I have to live with my female reproductive system regardless of whether I feel it is part of my sense of self.

Periods, pregnancy, miscarriage, menopause, female specific illnesses - I have very limited control over these things. When I have control, e.g. contraception, it depends completely on external services that can be withdrawn.

That 'fully functioning vagina' description is a bit of an aha moment for me. For men the consequence of sex is status and the role of reproductive organs is limited to sex, therefore this man can't see further than ego affirmation and sex.

I am however flummoxed that this description would be used in court.

Merrymouse · 26/02/2025 09:13

eatfigs · 26/02/2025 08:31

There are some efforts to sneak in "non-binary" recognition though appealing to other authorities too.

This guy got £330 compensation from Direct Line after complaining to the Financial Ombudsman, because they refused to recognise his "Mx" title.

Another is raising a similar case with the Financial Ombudsman and the Information Commissioner's Office because Barclays didn't put "Mx" on a drop-down box in some web form.

It feels a bit Stonewall Law.

I wonder what the financial ombudsman thought the grounds were?

I'm not sure whether non binary people are even covered in law under 'gender reassignment', given that they cannot be in the process of seeking gender reassignment.

I think there should be a 'don't care, use my first name' option.

Washinghanginginthesun · 26/02/2025 09:05

The FO operates as an arm of Stonewall.

eatfigs · 26/02/2025 08:31

There are some efforts to sneak in "non-binary" recognition though appealing to other authorities too.

This guy got £330 compensation from Direct Line after complaining to the Financial Ombudsman, because they refused to recognise his "Mx" title.

Another is raising a similar case with the Financial Ombudsman and the Information Commissioner's Office because Barclays didn't put "Mx" on a drop-down box in some web form.

It feels a bit Stonewall Law.

Washinghanginginthesun · 26/02/2025 08:26

Datun · 26/02/2025 08:07

But also, if it's not lined with any kind of penile material, isn't it literally as arousing as having a hole say, in your arm?

Don’t give them ideas

Datun · 26/02/2025 08:07

Washinghanginginthesun · 26/02/2025 06:53

I can’t think of anything more male than a man getting a ‘neovagina’ behind his penis. It screams ‘male fetish’.

But also, if it's not lined with any kind of penile material, isn't it literally as arousing as having a hole say, in your arm?

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2025 08:02

Helleofabore · 26/02/2025 07:57

It really is another bit of the foundations crumbling away, isn’t it?

It's a classic house built on the sand.

Helleofabore · 26/02/2025 07:57

RedToothBrush · 25/02/2025 22:04

Nope. Officially we can say there are just two genders in the UK.

Now we can get on with the job of realising that actually gender just means boring old gender stereotypes and that sex is not gender.

Maybe then people will wake up to how we codified gender stereotypes into law and the problem with that will dawn on them.

It really is another bit of the foundations crumbling away, isn’t it?

Washinghanginginthesun · 26/02/2025 06:53

I can’t think of anything more male than a man getting a ‘neovagina’ behind his penis. It screams ‘male fetish’.

lcakethereforeIam · 26/02/2025 01:20

Take it away @AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 26/02/2025 00:40

I came on this thread to post that his Bluesky post was a quote from GLaDOS, but not only have I been pipped to the post by FlirtsWithRhinos, but Cake has managed to get in a perfectly apposite reference to Aperture Science.

I have nothing left to contribute except to say I'm the best one in my family at doing the Portal song on karaoke.

JeremiahBullfrog · 26/02/2025 00:38

I doubt this "vagina" even performs the function of providing male sexual pleasure as well as a real one, quite apart from not having any of the other functions a vagina might have.