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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I think I'm becoming transphobic

182 replies

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 25/02/2025 08:16

I feel unpleasant writing this but I need to put it down somewhere. I know trans people, I have no problem with them and I've always said TWAW. But recently, especially in light of the Sandie Pegge, Beth Upton case my views are changing. I don't have a problem with people wearing what they want, I'm even fine with pronouns.

But I'm starting to believe that you cannot change sex. All the surgery and hormones in the world will not make you a woman. Saying 'I'm a woman' doesn't make it so.

What's worse is that my 15 year old stepdaughter is identifying as male and I just find myself getting so frustrated whenever they refer to themselves as 'a dude'.

Am I transphobic or just realistic? How can I come to terms with my feelings as they are evolving?

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RedToothBrush · 27/02/2025 08:22

GarlicStyle · 26/02/2025 17:52

The word-changing thing is bonkers, isn't it?

I'm a trans vegan. I require vegan restaurants to serve me trans-tofu steak, cut from the rib of a cow plant.

I identify as innocent of all crimes, therefore I can't be convicted. Better yet, I'm a trans judge; I void any case against me as unlawful.

I'm a trans child. I'm entitled to children's prices..

My trans nationality entitles me to full citizenship of any country I choose.

Since I'm trans short, all 'petite' ranges are transphobic and must include the sizes previously labelled 'tall'.

I'm trans beautiful (obviously) and trans rich. I expect all the privileges enjoyed by rich, beautiful women and will sue if I don't get them. On the days when I'm a trans man, I expect even more privileges!

You could try running some of these past your trans stepdude, @MyGhastIsFlabbered 😂 Just drop them in, a different one every day!

Ironically much of this sounds like Trump-World!

Grammarnut · 26/02/2025 17:59

Sex is not complex. It is binary and comes down to genitals, which - except in the .02% of people who have a DSD - are observed at birth: penis = male, vulva = female. Going further, males are those who produce small, mobile gametes (sperm) and females are those who produce large gametes (eggs). That's it.

GarlicStyle · 26/02/2025 17:52

The word-changing thing is bonkers, isn't it?

I'm a trans vegan. I require vegan restaurants to serve me trans-tofu steak, cut from the rib of a cow plant.

I identify as innocent of all crimes, therefore I can't be convicted. Better yet, I'm a trans judge; I void any case against me as unlawful.

I'm a trans child. I'm entitled to children's prices..

My trans nationality entitles me to full citizenship of any country I choose.

Since I'm trans short, all 'petite' ranges are transphobic and must include the sizes previously labelled 'tall'.

I'm trans beautiful (obviously) and trans rich. I expect all the privileges enjoyed by rich, beautiful women and will sue if I don't get them. On the days when I'm a trans man, I expect even more privileges!

You could try running some of these past your trans stepdude, @MyGhastIsFlabbered 😂 Just drop them in, a different one every day!

GarlicStyle · 26/02/2025 17:13

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 25/02/2025 09:55

@AlisonDonut I assure you I'm not that person. I'm genuinely feeling brainwashed and as a result extremely uncomfortable in my realisation of this. I'm not being disingenuous or trying to prove MN is transphobic.

I'll pick up on this, too, though I didn't see the deleted posts.

I am 'transphobic'.

Being a 'transphobe' means understanding that people can't change sex. Therefore 'trans women' are not women, 'trans men' are not men.
The two sexes are reproductive categories. There are only two.
Woman and man are the names for the two sexes in humans.
Women do not have the physical equipment to produce sperm. No man's body has ever produced eggs. Those things are impossible.

Women and girls have some rights and protections made necessary by the larger, physically stronger male body and the female capacity to gestate. Men have a well-documented tendency to abuse their physical power and to impose unwanted pregnancies on women, so we attempt to protect women from them.

Changing the names we use for the two sexes doesn't alter the bodily facts, so women and girls (female humans) still need some protections from men (male humans).

But changing the names does confuse people's thinking. This is why I don't go along with it.

In an enlightened democracy, no-one has the right to dictate how others must think or the words they use when speaking. Those who try to stop us recognising the facts of human sex are anti-democratic. They call me 'transphobic' for saying so. This is equivalent to calling me a 'thought criminal'.

I'll defend anyone's right to wear what they want, their fundamental rights to work and housing, etc, and even to call themselves any old nonsense that suits them. But they have no right to tell me what to think, to lie about basic human realities, or to threaten women.

Technically, I am a radical feminist so I am also a terf 😎 The 'trans exclusionary' part applies to my feminism, which centres on the realities of living in a female-sexed body. If you deny this reality, you can't be a feminist.

CocoapuffPuff · 26/02/2025 16:34

Oh, but condolences to his nearest and dearest. I'm sure someone somewhere cares, so there ya go. I doubt the families of the wee girls he raped care, but someone may...

CocoapuffPuff · 26/02/2025 16:32

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y920n0zj4o

she?????

her????

When in the name of all that farts is this bullshit going to stop?

He's a man
He's a man
He's a fucking MAN

ballettap · 26/02/2025 15:36

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/26/trans-woman-dies-facing-trial-for-raping-young-girl/?ICID=continue_without_subscribing_reg_first

Last line - The official court charge sheet identified Wilson as female. The rape charge stated that Wilson allegedly assaulted a girl “with your penis”.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/02/2025 14:51

A worrying number of the undeleted posts seem to be from people with basic misconceptions about the Equality Act.

The underlying problem has been created by the MCW member of staff, not the employee taking the piss with the BDSM pronouns, IMO.

Yes, exactly. The employer says elsewhere that he/she mandated pronouns for everyone in email signatures because of the other trans person on the team. Because he felt "othered" Confused. So this is partly a problem of their own making.

ballettap · 26/02/2025 14:44

Toseland · 25/02/2025 17:35

"I believe anyone can identify as whatever they want, it's not harming anyone."
But men dressing up as women is harming women and girls.
For example, the guy who got his new boobs out to play with on the White House lawn when Biden was in power; I wouldn't want my daughter seeing that and thinking it was normal behaviour for a woman.

Yes, the same as anyone playing with their bits in public (which are generally biological men!) What I should have said is 'IF' it's not harming anyone, my apologies.

My point remains though. If you want to dress like a woman then go right ahead, whatever makes you happy. But I will not say trans women are women, and I don't want willies in female spaces.

ThePeppyMoose · 26/02/2025 06:56

TheoTurkey · 25/02/2025 16:11

My daughter says I’m transphobic. The only thing I’ve ever mentioned (to her) is men in women’s sport. It breaks my fucking heart to think of women training their whole lives to compete in their sport, and then not standing a chance of winning because men have decided they’re women. All the hours they put in, the expense, their parents probably went without. If that makes me phobic, I don’t care

This is how badly schools and teaching materials have been poisoned. Most young people are still TWAW

WandaSiri · 26/02/2025 06:48

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/02/2025 18:49

We've just heard an actual doctor in a tribunal describe how he is biologically female.

There are only two possibilities, here.

Either he is deluded, and grossly ignorant of very basic reality, or he is lying and using sophistry to try to pretend that he has the right to insist that women in a state of undress in a changing room do not leave the room when he enters.

Not directly related to Upton but about power tripping and people being too scared to say anything, there's a thread in the legal advice subreddit on Reddit today about an employer who is having to deal with a person who has added BDSM based neopronouns to their customer facing emails.

The employer, who sounds a bit of a wet lettuce, isn't sure whether they have to accept them by law. Other staff are also taking the piss, naturally, and there's more handwringing about this and the need to support "trans rights" than the creepy sexually suggestive pronouns. I imagine this person was positively hoping for the attention, these people are so naive.

Most of the comments have been censored, obvs Grin

https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/s/F5kOvt0sOU

A worrying number of the undeleted posts seem to be from people with basic misconceptions about the Equality Act.

The underlying problem has been created by the MCW member of staff, not the employee taking the piss with the BDSM pronouns, IMO.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/02/2025 22:42

I identified as a man to annoy someone who thinks TWAW. For some reason he couldn't keep up the pretence. I told him he was transphobic

Well done GrinWine

user3827 · 25/02/2025 22:22

WellToBeHonest · 25/02/2025 21:40

I didn't used to be transphobic but after being exposed to so much awful behaviour from those who have a trans identity, I think I am transphobic now. The word "trans" has all sorts of negative connotations in my mind and when I encounter someone with a trans identity I assume the worst about them. I'm definitely prejudiced against the whole lot of them now. I often have to step back and think and remind myself that they're not all like that because my gut instinct has been cultivated after years of all this to say otherwise. Sorry but this is the truth and I expect it's the same for many others here.

(Name changed as I don't want this confession associated with all my posts on women's rights.)

I identified as a man to annoy someone who thinks TWAW. For some reason he couldn't keep up the pretence. I told him he was transphobic 😬

WellToBeHonest · 25/02/2025 21:40

I didn't used to be transphobic but after being exposed to so much awful behaviour from those who have a trans identity, I think I am transphobic now. The word "trans" has all sorts of negative connotations in my mind and when I encounter someone with a trans identity I assume the worst about them. I'm definitely prejudiced against the whole lot of them now. I often have to step back and think and remind myself that they're not all like that because my gut instinct has been cultivated after years of all this to say otherwise. Sorry but this is the truth and I expect it's the same for many others here.

(Name changed as I don't want this confession associated with all my posts on women's rights.)

RedToothBrush · 25/02/2025 21:12

ArabellaScott · 25/02/2025 14:17

One problem is that we've had a generation raised with outrageous disinformation.

The BBC taught children there are 100 gender identities:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/parents-condemn-bbc-educational-film-describing-100-gender-identities-396092vl8

In theory, this is fine, given that 'gender identity' doesn't really have a stable meaning, other than 'an affinity with or aversion to gender stereotypes'. However, this is presented in a way that impressionable, young children are likely to believe means 'sex'.

Formerly reputable publications have suggested there are more than two sexes. Scientific American, take a bow:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

'new technologies in DNA sequencing and cell biology are revealing that almost everyone is, to varying degrees, a patchwork of genetically distinct cells, some with a sex that might not match that of the rest of their body.'

And governments have colluded.

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2024/11/05/the-extra-genders/

'The Scottish Government coding framework provides three different suggested groupings, for any free text responses that public bodies gather in response to questions about trans status. The simplest suggests 3 categories [Yes, No, Not stated]. Another has 7 categories, and is similar to that used by the NRS [Not trans and does not have a trans status, Trans man, Trans woman, Non-binary person, Trans status: not specified, Other trans status or history, Not stated]. The final one issued by the Scottish Government, however, has 27 categories [No, Cisgender, No recognised trans status, Trans man, Trans woman, Non-binary, Trans – not otherwise specified, 19 individual genders, Not stated].'

Edited

Except this is legally absolute bollocks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyve4m79e6lo

As demonstrated in court today:
Castellucci described the experience of trying to obtain legal documents listing them as non-binary as an "ordeal" and the court heard they worried about possible difficulties related to their gender identity when applying for British citizenship.

They also raised concerns about how their gender identity would be reflected on their death certificate, when their US documents state they are non-binary.

Lord Justice Singh, sitting with Dame Victoria Sharp and Sir Andrew McFarlane, said that only 11 countries worldwide, as well as some US states including California, recognise non-binary gender in law.

Non-binary is an umbrella term for those those who do not identify as exclusively male or female.

In a judgment published on Tuesday, external, Lord Justice Singh said: "The concept of 'gender' in the Gender Recognition Act (GRA), when referred to in the context of the domestic law route, is confined to two genders."

There are NOT six billion genders in the UK. And non-binary has no legal status. So anyone saying differently is talking incoherent fiction.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/02/2025 18:49

We've just heard an actual doctor in a tribunal describe how he is biologically female.

There are only two possibilities, here.

Either he is deluded, and grossly ignorant of very basic reality, or he is lying and using sophistry to try to pretend that he has the right to insist that women in a state of undress in a changing room do not leave the room when he enters.

Not directly related to Upton but about power tripping and people being too scared to say anything, there's a thread in the legal advice subreddit on Reddit today about an employer who is having to deal with a person who has added BDSM based neopronouns to their customer facing emails.

The employer, who sounds a bit of a wet lettuce, isn't sure whether they have to accept them by law. Other staff are also taking the piss, naturally, and there's more handwringing about this and the need to support "trans rights" than the creepy sexually suggestive pronouns. I imagine this person was positively hoping for the attention, these people are so naive.

Most of the comments have been censored, obvs Grin

https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/s/F5kOvt0sOU

Brefugee · 25/02/2025 18:11

Toseland · 25/02/2025 17:35

"I believe anyone can identify as whatever they want, it's not harming anyone."
But men dressing up as women is harming women and girls.
For example, the guy who got his new boobs out to play with on the White House lawn when Biden was in power; I wouldn't want my daughter seeing that and thinking it was normal behaviour for a woman.

It is not the dressing up that harms women and girls. It is claiming that by wearing "women's clothing" they become a woman that harms women and children.

Back in the heady days of 2nd wave feminism i thought we had debunked the shite about gender stereotypes. Seems not.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 25/02/2025 18:02

Calling trans people parasites would indeed be transphobic. But there are certainly aspects of the activism that are parasitic in nature. The co-option of DSDs, adding the I to LGBTQ+, is like a cuckoo in a reed warbler's nest. A much larger, louder interloper using confusion to take attention and resources. And as for 'no LGB without the T' and what's been done to Stonewall - that's full on zombie ant fungus levels of parasitism.

Toseland · 25/02/2025 17:35

"I believe anyone can identify as whatever they want, it's not harming anyone."
But men dressing up as women is harming women and girls.
For example, the guy who got his new boobs out to play with on the White House lawn when Biden was in power; I wouldn't want my daughter seeing that and thinking it was normal behaviour for a woman.

MummytoE · 25/02/2025 17:19

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 25/02/2025 08:16

I feel unpleasant writing this but I need to put it down somewhere. I know trans people, I have no problem with them and I've always said TWAW. But recently, especially in light of the Sandie Pegge, Beth Upton case my views are changing. I don't have a problem with people wearing what they want, I'm even fine with pronouns.

But I'm starting to believe that you cannot change sex. All the surgery and hormones in the world will not make you a woman. Saying 'I'm a woman' doesn't make it so.

What's worse is that my 15 year old stepdaughter is identifying as male and I just find myself getting so frustrated whenever they refer to themselves as 'a dude'.

Am I transphobic or just realistic? How can I come to terms with my feelings as they are evolving?

Welcome to the dark side!!

ILikeMyBike · 25/02/2025 17:18

piggybackrideitallnight · 25/02/2025 15:43

I'm not good at quoting posts. They said: "There is no minority group or struggle that trans won't colonise or appropriate. They really are as many experts have deemed them, parasites. Termites that attach themselves to an established (and vulnerable) group and eat away at that group from the inside out."

Yeah it was poorly phrased but I took it to mean TRAs (often not trans themselves) and trans ideology (a very fundamentalist form of the belief in gender id).

It's easy for me not to jump to offence on behalf of trans people however because I've been aware of their existence since my teens and the first transexual I knew was long before the current iteration of trans rights ideology. It's perhaps easier for me to step back and see the preposterous, misogynist demands we see at the moment as separate from, and not representing, all trans people.

literallyarabbit · 25/02/2025 17:16

TW aren't women. There's nothing transphobic about scientific fact.

I was in Zara earlier. There was a TW at the women's changing room showing women to fitting rooms. (And believe me, they were very obviously male and the longer hair, make-up and painted nails just highlighted this fact). It made me uncomfortable because guess what? It was a man. Men do not belong in women's changing rooms. Again, nothing transphobic about that. Why? Because you cannot change sex. A man will always be a man no matter how he is dressed.

Huckleberries · 25/02/2025 17:10

@MyGhastIsFlabbered if you feel able to talk more about this, I'd be interested to hear it and how you have started to see things differently

I'm having an issue with a family member who used to be someone I could talk to about issues with misogyny.

I read this thread with interest especially in reference to "soul" stuff. The irony is this person is very much an atheist. I've seen you on MN before and I don't think you're posting for drama.

ArabellaScott · 25/02/2025 16:39

TheoTurkey · 25/02/2025 16:11

My daughter says I’m transphobic. The only thing I’ve ever mentioned (to her) is men in women’s sport. It breaks my fucking heart to think of women training their whole lives to compete in their sport, and then not standing a chance of winning because men have decided they’re women. All the hours they put in, the expense, their parents probably went without. If that makes me phobic, I don’t care

Yes, any deviation from absolute compliance will be deemed 'transphobic'. Eventually one realises that the term is used not as a descriptor but as a chastisement, a way to stop discussion and questions. Yes, same as 'blasphemer' or 'apostate' or 'unbeliever'.

Xiaoxiong · 25/02/2025 16:33

@TheoTurkey it doesn't make you transphobic of course, It just threatens your DD's faith-based position that transwomen are women.

In fact if you replace every time someone says "that's transphobic" with "that's blasphemy" it makes it clearer what's going on.

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