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Original poster

Trade unions have a woman problem. Excellent article by union NEC member Paul Embery

92 replies

Tarquinthecat · 21/02/2025 23:42

https://www.paulembery.com/p/trade-unions-have-a-woman-problem

OP posts:
needmoresheep · 23/02/2025 10:48

God loves a trier @2pence

but if I was going to campaign within a teaching union for more protection on women’s right to single sex spaces, so not sharing with anyone still in possession of a penis, I would be expelled, re-educated and called all sorts of things. We have seen healthcare and education unions in action on these matters and that why we need alternatives.

campaigning from within is just going to cause us/me grief

SionnachRuadh · 23/02/2025 10:46

When I was active in my former union, we had a branch with a paper membership of 600 but less than 10 people turned up to meetings. I got on the branch committee because nobody else was interested.

You may think that makes it easier to have your voice heard. Not so, if you're one of eight people in the room and the other seven are hardened politicos with a fixed position that's opposite to yours.

It would have been easier if there had been some normies in the room, but the normies were too busy doing their jobs.

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/02/2025 10:44

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:40

Change doesn't come from doing nothing. All unions are guided by what their members want. It's the members who speak up who drive the campaigns.

If the unions you mention don't serve your needs then you need to tell them what you want so they can.

I suppose leaving for a Union that is already acting on behalf of people who have expressed similar views to your own is a valid option where available. Otherwise, you could become an activist and bring that change to your current union if there's no alternative.

However, doing nothing will get you exactly that, nothing.

What do you mean by 'change' anyway? What is it you think that people want from their union?

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/02/2025 10:43

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:40

Change doesn't come from doing nothing. All unions are guided by what their members want. It's the members who speak up who drive the campaigns.

If the unions you mention don't serve your needs then you need to tell them what you want so they can.

I suppose leaving for a Union that is already acting on behalf of people who have expressed similar views to your own is a valid option where available. Otherwise, you could become an activist and bring that change to your current union if there's no alternative.

However, doing nothing will get you exactly that, nothing.

That is just naive. Are you aware of how many women have been abandoned and even disciplined/ejected from their union for wrong think in recent years?

SidewaysOtter · 23/02/2025 10:42

If the unions you mention don't serve your needs then you need to tell them what you want so they can.

They don’t give one shiny shit that anyone would leave or not join on the basis of gender critical views. They don’t want us.

It’s nice to think that there would be member-led change but we all know that those at the top would stop that happening.

SidewaysOtter · 23/02/2025 10:40

DisappearingGirl · 23/02/2025 10:04

Good article. I agree with this:

Like so many other of our institutions, unions – most of them, at any rate – have been captured by the ideology of hyper-progressivism. Not ordinary rank-and-file trade unionists, many of whom are aghast at the turn of events, but the upper echelons of the movement, which are replete these days with graduates, Guardianistas, social radicals and policy wonks but far too light on ‘normies’ from traditional working-class backgrounds and with first-hand experience of life at the coalface or on the shop floor.

I was a member of the UCU (University and College Union) for around 20 years. I left for two reasons:

  1. The way they put the boot in on Kathleen Stock and other crazy statements they made about gender ideology (google "UCU trans" to see a whole range of batshittery)
  2. Pushing on with extreme forms of strike action (e.g. marking and assessment boycott) even when they had just reached a good agreement on pensions.
Edited

Both of those are exactly why I’ve never joined them. I fundamentally disagree with their stance on strikes and their stance on women’s rights so they’re not getting a damned penny from me.

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:40

Change doesn't come from doing nothing. All unions are guided by what their members want. It's the members who speak up who drive the campaigns.

If the unions you mention don't serve your needs then you need to tell them what you want so they can.

I suppose leaving for a Union that is already acting on behalf of people who have expressed similar views to your own is a valid option where available. Otherwise, you could become an activist and bring that change to your current union if there's no alternative.

However, doing nothing will get you exactly that, nothing.

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/02/2025 10:39

Daffiesmeanspring · 23/02/2025 10:32

You think the union reps in every workplace are planning on a political career...? 😃

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Yes, that's right! Many who become involved in trade union activism end up pursuing that more than they do their primary role or occupation. They become political actors rather than teachers, for example. Always agitating.

The trade union movement is a life time commitment for many...which is why they hold big annual jamborees as with political parties. You'll find many Labour party councillors or MPs used to be trade union reps or activists.

SidewaysOtter · 23/02/2025 10:39

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:05

Unions are member led though. Therefore the campaigns come from motions put forward by members that have enough representatives voting for it because they have to vote for what their own members have told them they want.

If you are a member of a union, your voice and opinion is as important as another member's. You can talk to the elected (by members) Executive Team and ask them to take your opinion forward as a motion and, if enough members agree with you, it's carried.

If you feel your union doesn't represent your views then you need to step up and become active. Get involved with Union meetings, consider becoming a rep or an even an officer yourself if you feel really passionate. Make sure your own branch executives know what you want so they can take it forward for a democratic vote.

Change comes from people acting. Be the change you want to see.

Admirable as that sentiment is, it’s not borne out in reality. Just look at UCU who wanted to “root out” gender critical staff at universities. Who the hell wants to put themselves in a union’s virtue signalling crosshairs?

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/02/2025 10:35

Daffiesmeanspring · 23/02/2025 10:14

Edapt won't improve your pay or conditions though, since they don't take part in industrial action. So you're still reliant on some people being part of the other unions to campaign on your behalf.

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Most people go into teaching knowing full well it is not a highly paid career, and they see the long holidays and decent pension scheme as the real benefits.
And most teachers are not interested in strike action or in working to rule. They take their professional duties seriously and don't want to let the children down.

I'm no longer teaching but when i was the NUT ( now NEU) were continually agitating and instructing teachers " don't do this", "don't do that".....and even when pay had been improved they'd continue to agitate on other fronts.

Daffiesmeanspring · 23/02/2025 10:32

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/02/2025 10:30

To be honest that all sounds very blithe.....

Most people haven't got the time in their busy lives to devote to trade union activism. They pay their subscription for representation and support when it is required. Trade unions have always been political and tribal...but now they've virtually all ( even including the ones for middle class occupations) become virtual closed shops in which rigid party lines are imposed on the membership.

Those who do get involved in trade union activism tend to use it as basis for a political career, and are always the ones agitating in the staff room or on the shop floor.

Show quote history

You think the union reps in every workplace are planning on a political career...? 😃

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/02/2025 10:30

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:05

Unions are member led though. Therefore the campaigns come from motions put forward by members that have enough representatives voting for it because they have to vote for what their own members have told them they want.

If you are a member of a union, your voice and opinion is as important as another member's. You can talk to the elected (by members) Executive Team and ask them to take your opinion forward as a motion and, if enough members agree with you, it's carried.

If you feel your union doesn't represent your views then you need to step up and become active. Get involved with Union meetings, consider becoming a rep or an even an officer yourself if you feel really passionate. Make sure your own branch executives know what you want so they can take it forward for a democratic vote.

Change comes from people acting. Be the change you want to see.

To be honest that all sounds very blithe.....

Most people haven't got the time in their busy lives to devote to trade union activism. They pay their subscription for representation and support when it is required. Trade unions have always been political and tribal...but now they've virtually all ( even including the ones for middle class occupations) become virtual closed shops in which rigid party lines are imposed on the membership.

Those who do get involved in trade union activism tend to use it as basis for a political career, and are always the ones agitating in the staff room or on the shop floor.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 23/02/2025 10:18

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:05

Unions are member led though. Therefore the campaigns come from motions put forward by members that have enough representatives voting for it because they have to vote for what their own members have told them they want.

If you are a member of a union, your voice and opinion is as important as another member's. You can talk to the elected (by members) Executive Team and ask them to take your opinion forward as a motion and, if enough members agree with you, it's carried.

If you feel your union doesn't represent your views then you need to step up and become active. Get involved with Union meetings, consider becoming a rep or an even an officer yourself if you feel really passionate. Make sure your own branch executives know what you want so they can take it forward for a democratic vote.

Change comes from people acting. Be the change you want to see.

Not sure you understand much about how women's rights are currently viewed by the unions to make that post.
Look at the behaviour of the RCN in refusing to represent Sandie Peggie in her claim for legal single sex spaces, the UCU in their treatment of Kathleen Stock and other academics. The toxicity of the Unison response in insisting that men must have the right to undress alongside women nurses.
Why on earth would women expose themselves in their workplace to those extreme levels of toxic masculinity and bullying.

Especially as there are finally a number of options to the anti women, trans captured unions.

needmoresheep · 23/02/2025 10:17

Daffiesmeanspring · 23/02/2025 10:14

Edapt won't improve your pay or conditions though, since they don't take part in industrial action. So you're still reliant on some people being part of the other unions to campaign on your behalf.

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Well I don’t think the traditional unions have made much of a difference in recent years as they are too busy with politics.

Daffiesmeanspring · 23/02/2025 10:16

needmoresheep · 23/02/2025 10:11

In the current climate that would not be welcome. There would be calls for our ‘re-education’.

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I totally agree. I've found some union members who think like me but it's all a bit hush hush. I don't mind speaking out usually but until recently I'd have worried about my job.

Daffiesmeanspring · 23/02/2025 10:14

needmoresheep · 23/02/2025 09:24

Thanks for this. Most teachers are union members, IMHO, in case of pupil allegations and so want legal support. This looks like a great alternative. No political nonsense

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Edapt won't improve your pay or conditions though, since they don't take part in industrial action. So you're still reliant on some people being part of the other unions to campaign on your behalf.

Withoutuse · 23/02/2025 10:13

endofthelinefinally · 22/02/2025 01:50

I have asked before on here if there is any union that actually supports women.
I found the RCN absolutely useless when I needed them. Luckily I got out of my situation by getting a better job and I am now retired.
I have a friend going through a horrible grievance process atm. Interestingly, the Women's Officer in her union is the only senior rep that has a full time job in the work place as well. The other senior reps, all men, don't. They get paid to be union reps. ( Local Government)

Affinity Union.
Join them. They are apolitical and have a strong stance in supporting the free speech of members. I used to be a Unison member but would not consider joining them or any of the other ‘legacy’ unions. They’ve just shown themselves to never have left the misogynistic roots of the Union movement.

So I joined Affinity, which is workers Union, as well as the Free Speech Union.

needmoresheep · 23/02/2025 10:11

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:05

Unions are member led though. Therefore the campaigns come from motions put forward by members that have enough representatives voting for it because they have to vote for what their own members have told them they want.

If you are a member of a union, your voice and opinion is as important as another member's. You can talk to the elected (by members) Executive Team and ask them to take your opinion forward as a motion and, if enough members agree with you, it's carried.

If you feel your union doesn't represent your views then you need to step up and become active. Get involved with Union meetings, consider becoming a rep or an even an officer yourself if you feel really passionate. Make sure your own branch executives know what you want so they can take it forward for a democratic vote.

Change comes from people acting. Be the change you want to see.

In the current climate that would not be welcome. There would be calls for our ‘re-education’.

DarkForces · 23/02/2025 10:08

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:05

Unions are member led though. Therefore the campaigns come from motions put forward by members that have enough representatives voting for it because they have to vote for what their own members have told them they want.

If you are a member of a union, your voice and opinion is as important as another member's. You can talk to the elected (by members) Executive Team and ask them to take your opinion forward as a motion and, if enough members agree with you, it's carried.

If you feel your union doesn't represent your views then you need to step up and become active. Get involved with Union meetings, consider becoming a rep or an even an officer yourself if you feel really passionate. Make sure your own branch executives know what you want so they can take it forward for a democratic vote.

Change comes from people acting. Be the change you want to see.

I'd rather find a union that aligns with my values and the actual law then waste my limited energy fighting men over what a woman is.

RedToothBrush · 23/02/2025 10:07

SidewaysOtter · 23/02/2025 10:00

Ah, but they think they’re right and everyone with a different view is an ignorant, thick, racist, gammon bigot. The view from that self-constructed moral high ground must be lovely for them, looking down on all the Hateful People Hmm

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Does not stop you ending up in court for breaking the law.

2pence · 23/02/2025 10:05

Unions are member led though. Therefore the campaigns come from motions put forward by members that have enough representatives voting for it because they have to vote for what their own members have told them they want.

If you are a member of a union, your voice and opinion is as important as another member's. You can talk to the elected (by members) Executive Team and ask them to take your opinion forward as a motion and, if enough members agree with you, it's carried.

If you feel your union doesn't represent your views then you need to step up and become active. Get involved with Union meetings, consider becoming a rep or an even an officer yourself if you feel really passionate. Make sure your own branch executives know what you want so they can take it forward for a democratic vote.

Change comes from people acting. Be the change you want to see.

DisappearingGirl · 23/02/2025 10:04

Good article. I agree with this:

Like so many other of our institutions, unions – most of them, at any rate – have been captured by the ideology of hyper-progressivism. Not ordinary rank-and-file trade unionists, many of whom are aghast at the turn of events, but the upper echelons of the movement, which are replete these days with graduates, Guardianistas, social radicals and policy wonks but far too light on ‘normies’ from traditional working-class backgrounds and with first-hand experience of life at the coalface or on the shop floor.

I was a member of the UCU (University and College Union) for around 20 years. I left for two reasons:

  1. The way they put the boot in on Kathleen Stock and other crazy statements they made about gender ideology (google "UCU trans" to see a whole range of batshittery)
  2. Pushing on with extreme forms of strike action (e.g. marking and assessment boycott) even when they had just reached a good agreement on pensions.
SidewaysOtter · 23/02/2025 10:00

RedToothBrush · 23/02/2025 08:33

It is.

But in this case, whilst they are allowed their opinions if they themselves are failing in their legal responsibilities in line with the law whilst floating about no one objecting to votes then at some point reality is going to clash with them.

Show quote history

Ah, but they think they’re right and everyone with a different view is an ignorant, thick, racist, gammon bigot. The view from that self-constructed moral high ground must be lovely for them, looking down on all the Hateful People Hmm

needmoresheep · 23/02/2025 09:24

borntobequiet · 22/02/2025 08:53

Edapt

https://www.edapt.org.uk

Is a good alternative to the captured (school) teaching unions.

Thanks for this. Most teachers are union members, IMHO, in case of pupil allegations and so want legal support. This looks like a great alternative. No political nonsense

RedToothBrush · 23/02/2025 08:33

SidewaysOtter · 23/02/2025 07:27

Unions seem to be the absolute worst for having prescribed views. TWAW, Palestine good Israel bad, the push for Net Zero, etc etc. Anyone who disagrees is beyond the pale and not worth defending.

When you think about the origins of the trades union movement, it’s quite depressing that they seem to have formed their own immovable establishment.

Show quote history

It is.

But in this case, whilst they are allowed their opinions if they themselves are failing in their legal responsibilities in line with the law whilst floating about no one objecting to votes then at some point reality is going to clash with them.