Persuading a TA to change her mind

I think anybody who has transitioned as a child has been irreparably harmed, yes. Children should be given time to grow into adults before making irreversible decisions like this.

I also think that the medical profession and pharmaceutical industry should be focusing on finding ways of curing gender dysphoria, or at least alleviating it enough to enable people with dysphoria to accept their sexed bodies. But that wouldn't be such a money spinner for them, would it? And nobody is allowed to say this because the implication is that being transgender is inherently an undesirable thing to be.

This isn't actually what I meant at all. I meant perhaps she has a loved one who happens to be trans, FM or MF, could be an adult who has transitioned, not necessarily a child. But whatever, she could want to support or at least not actively go against them. This is all hypothetical of course, we don't know her reasons. Maybe she believes TWAW with regards to fully transitioned men. Whatever the case I don't think she would welcome OP accosting her in the street. She just needs to accept the woman's decision to block her unless the woman herself brings up the subject and would like a debate. I think it's fair to think that out of OP's thousands of FB friends a few won't agree with her. She either has to accept that or not post things that's she's not willing to defend.

Or perhaps not EVERY SINGLE transgender child or person is irreparably harmed and live happy lives.

You can't come in with a sweeping statement like all transgender children are irreparably harmed by their parents and expect anyone who respects trans people to want to sit and have a reasonable conversation with you.

Try not to worry - she's not done anything other than block you on a social media platform and explain to someone when they specifically asked, what her reasoning for that was.

If you do encounter anything negative more widely, you could have a few responses prepped, eg: "Oh, that's a shame if she feels that way. I don't think I've ever said anything transphobic online so I don't know where that's come from." Then just move on to a new topic of conversation. If there's a specific article she references as 'evidence', you can even say something like "I share a lot of articles about lots of things - what does she say I said about it?" (Then you can show that actually you said nothing - just shared the article).

Could it be that she is so deluded that, like Dr Upton, she thinks TWs actually are female?

@BeaAndBen I agree with you and I think this is key: "this is one woman who blocked her on Facebook ‘for transphobia’ but otherwise hasn’t had any other issues or hints of a problem."

If it was me I'd just let it fade now and deal with any issues if they occurred. I wouldn't be compromising my own views at all, but equally I wouldn't be looking to go and convince anybody.

Absolutely. I think in Brighton, Leeds or Manchester she’d have every reason to be concerned. But a small town? That’s not the usual MO.

The trans lobby like to go after those they can trample over with their numbers. Large community of ‘allies’ galumphing over women’s rights and livelihoods. It’s horrible. I have seen it happen to a good friend and it was heartbreaking.

But from what the OP said, this is one woman who blocked her on Facebook ‘for transphobia’ but otherwise hasn’t had any other issues or hints of a problem.

I’ve had any number of former friends and acquaintances block me over this. (And met many amazing women as a result so a win on balance) That didn’t make them come for my business, though. We just parted company.

The OP will become That Transphobe if she starts trying to have conversations about it. Her GC views will be the first thing this woman thinks of rather than the issue fading into the background over time.

Do these TRAs never watch a documentary about Nazism or read 1984 or the Handmaid's Tale and think, "Are we the baddies?"

Yes I was thinking of that cafe among other businesses.

There was a cafe in Brighton that refused to put up a trans-related poster. The TRAs really went after her.
Thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4051558-Brighton-TRAs-bullying-female-small-business-owner

OP’s approach of “show her how she’s wrong” is only going to make it more likely, not less, that the woman talks about OP’s GC views to others.

I do agree with you there though.

Sorry I meant to quote you @BeaAndBen

I just wanted to make the point that she's not necessarily just being paranoid.

If it were at a university, in publishing or the arts I think there’s ample evidence to support the worry of losing her livelihood, but much less so in the wider world.

I think this is a bit naive. It depends on the community and the people involved. I've seen people's businesses get targeted by activists on FB before.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be involved.

The difficulty is that on this particular issue, this particular group seems unable to comprehend or accept the fact that the "rights" they are demanding are in direct conflict with the rights of others (which is quite unusual in itself) which makes it nigh on impossible to have a constructive discussion with them.

Most women who advocate for access to safe and legal abortions accept that there should be some limits on our right to an abortion (e.g. most pro choice women don't support on demand abortion of a healthy pregnancy right up to full term, for example). Whereas "pro life" campaigners often take the view that the unborn baby's right to life trumps any and all autonomy that women might wish to have over her own body. (And "pro life" campaigners are the ones engaging in often violent protest, not pro choice campaigners.)

The problem with trans activism is the position they tend to take, which is that anything any trans person wants should automatically trump the rights and needs of all and any other groups which may have conflicting interests, for whatever reason. You can't have a constructive discussion with people like that.

But she doesn’t seem to have any evidence that this woman is likely to do so. It’s all a bit paranoid.

If it were at a university, in publishing or the arts I think there’s ample evidence to support the worry of losing her livelihood, but much less so in the wider world.

OP’s approach of “show her how she’s wrong” is only going to make it more likely, not less, that the woman talks about OP’s GC views to others.

Goodness, I find that such a strange take. By that logic women shouldn't be involved in any conversations about issues like abortion rights because they can't be impartial. Or any group involved in decision making about issues that affect them, in fact.

OP is afraid this person will denounce her and cause harm to her livelihood.

you don't get to tell people how to be a feminist.

Feminists prioritise women’s rights. If you prioritise men’s ‘rights’ to remove women’s rights, eg by using women’s single-sex services, you are like a ‘vegan’ who eats meat.

Actually, on that note, an acquaintance of mine posted something like, "To be clear, if you support my friends losing their rights, or are even OK with it, we are not friends" on her Facebook profile recently. She didn't mention trans people or reply to the person who commented, "Who is losing their rights?" But I'm fairly sure that's what she was talking about.

So if I posted anything overtly gender critical on Facebook (which I don't), I would not be at all surprised to see her disappear from my friends list. There's just no point discussing this with some people.

Helen Joyce talks about this in one of her interviews.

She reckons that the people with a "trans child" occupying senior positions in politics/the civil service/the BBC may be the real reason behind the ideological capture of those organisations. Because people who have affirmed their child's transgender identity will never, ever admit that they have harmed their child, even to themselves.

They will still be talking about transphobia and life saving care even when the rest of the world has seen the light and moved on, because their child can never move on and neither will they. So they will go down with the trans ship.

And while those people are occupying senior positions in politically influential organisations, no sensible discussion can be allowed to take place because everyone is afraid of upsetting them.

I have experienced first hand that you cannot have a discussion about this with anyone who is close to a trans person. When I disagreed that JK Rowling is an evil bigot in front of a group of women, it turned out one of them had a trans sibling and another performs facial feminisation surgery on trans women. Another may be transing her own three year old. (He is a boy but wants to dress like a girl and it's not clear whether she is the one driving it.) So I just accepted that I'd burned my bridges with that group because you cannot have a sensible discussion with anyone who has skin in the game.

This is why it's so difficult when trans activist groups complain about decisions being made without the involvement of trans people. Yes, in theory, the people affected should be involved. But the people affected are incapable of being impartial.

How about this - maybe she has someone close to her, friend or family, who is trans. No matter what her own personal views on the whole subject are, she may not want to get involved in anything that could cause upset or maybe she doesn't feel comfortable with your views. There could be all sorts of reasons really and you just need to accept it.

Because maybe she does think of trans women as women? It is possible. There are people who genuinely do feel that way, including disabled people who may need intimate care.

It is always worth remembering that sometimes people can have all the same information as you and just disagree.

Oh come on, who reported that post?

I wasn't saying that I think people who support this stuff are [redacted]. The point is that they aren't going to suddenly see the light and realise that what they have been supporting is very bad and evil if the OP brings out the big guns and starts talking about the reality of "gender affirming care".

The road from where they are now to where the OP wants them to be (i.e. gender critical, I assume) is long and can't be walked in a day.

It sounds like you're thinking about yourself too much

For once, I agree with @Christinapple.