How to respond to "oh there's always bad apples that ruin things for everyone" and "well women do that too" ?

106 replies

Ohisitjustme · 03/02/2025 13:49

How to respond to this?

Discussed the trans issue.

I said I'm really concerned about women's safety in eg changing rooms. Any man can come in now and flash their penis and anyone who complains is a transphobe.
Response: well nobody should be flashing their penis around. There's always a bad apple in every barrel
Me: but there's now no recourse to complain without be labelled transphobic
Response: well there'll always be people who'll take advantage

Me: no woman now can get changed in M&S changing rooms without worrying about a man opening their curtain, pretending it's a mistake
Response: well women can be voyeurs too
Me: but women don't rape other women
Response: yes they do

Me: muslim women now can't use public toilets as men are allowed in
Response: so should everyone use the toilet of their birth sex?
Me: yes
Response: what about Butch lesbians who look masculine and are then reported for using women's toilets. And what about women living as men ; should they frighten women by using female toilets?
Me: everyone knows what a woman looks like vs what a man looks like.
Response: what about that Butch lesbian who was asked to leave?

I don't know what else to say. Apart from "seriously are you fucking serious?"

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Ohisitjustme · 03/02/2025 14:13

ScarlettSunset · 03/02/2025 13:57

I should think the answer is that everyone managed just fine until not so long ago, before gender ideology became a craze that swept the world.

These issues have only been inflicted on women very recently.

Apparently trans people have been around forever. Native tribes have a "third gender" etc
They've just been horribly oppressed

OP posts:

izimbra · 03/02/2025 14:12

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MarieDeGournay · 03/02/2025 14:06

I try to avoid details or examples. I stick to provable fact, e.g. in humans, there are only two sexes and you can't swap one for the other; men commit more crime than women, including approx 98% of sexual crime - that sort of thing.

And principle: most women DO mind men in spaces where they are undressed, it's a long-established convention that men stay out of women's toilets and changing areas, and the vast majority of men willingly respect that.
Transwomen are factually men not women, and therefore don't belong in women's toilets or changing rooms.
The fact that a few women say they don't mind men in their spaces is neither here nor there. Good luck to them, but their wishes don't overrule the majority's.

People will keep coming up with 'yeah but what about...?'. Try not to get drawn into that. Don't get rattled. Stick to the basics. You're right.

pontefractals · 03/02/2025 14:00

If we weren't so alert to the possibility of voyeuristic men in places where they shouldn't be, butch lesbians would probably go unquestioned. If they were questioned, they could simply say, "no, I'm a woman" and in most cases it would become really obvious when they spoke/moved.
We used to have a sort of social contract that men and women stuck to their own toilets, changing rooms, etc, and anyone who appeared to not belong could be challenged; this is what we have now lost.
Also, before anyone asks, yes, I have been challenged before now as to whether I was in the right room. It didn't cause me any upset, because I know who and what I am. (On one occasion I had in fact gone to the men's after one glass too many - I felt very silly but not at all threatened.)

HamandCheeseSandwich · 03/02/2025 14:00

Don't discuss it with them any more.

ScarlettSunset · 03/02/2025 13:57

I should think the answer is that everyone managed just fine until not so long ago, before gender ideology became a craze that swept the world.

These issues have only been inflicted on women very recently.

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