Trump tells DOJ to prosecute teachers who “unlawfully” support trans or nonbinary students

@Porridgewithoats "If Trump had wanted to allow children to explore and understand that gender is an oppressive, sexist construct, he could have put feminism on the curriculum and ensured schools had to teach critical thinking around gender"
You're suggesting Trump should have written a school curriculum and imposed it on all states?
That really would be tyrranical, and unconstitutional. And not a criticism of Trump I was expecting to see.
EOs are one thing US presidents can do, off their own bat, without any other branches of government involved. They feel undemocratic to me but it's their system. They have a very limited scope, Trump is shaving very close to the bone with these, many of them will be challenged and who knows how it all comes out in the wash.
I feel a bit like this EO is playing with the optics of the court cases in mind.

Tell that to the clinicians at the Tavistock who stated they witnessed deeply homophobic parents bringing their children to set them along the ‘trans the gay away’ route. Being homophobic, some parents could accept their child’s non gender conforming behaviour (or possible same sex attraction) only if they could cosmetically make their child look like the opposite sex. And, therefore apparently ‘straight’. The promotion of the idea of a gendered soul in the wrong body made this possible. Junk Science masquerading as healthcare. And incredibly they were allowed to do this to physically healthy children.

The clinicians had a joke that there would hardly be any gay kids in the future. The ‘gay’ would all be ‘transed away’.

It is incredibly sad that those children could be treated this way. First lied to that they could in reality change sex, and secondly put on a medical pathway which might lead to sterility or other serious health problems. Any principle of ‘First do no harm’ completely betrayed. On a pathway that youngsters could not possibly consent to as they could not be able to realise the full consequences. I didn’t consider having a child in my 20’s, but if I had been sterilised I would not have been able to then start a family in my thirties. Or breastfeed if my breast had been cut off as a youngster.

I really do think this will be regarded as an enormous abuse scandal in the future.

Is this a thing?!? Parents telling their 4 year old they are in the wrong body?! I think there are a lot of important issues to be discussed and dealt with, but there’s a lot of hysterical bullshit going around.

I guess that most schools and most teachers will abide by the directive but there will be highly motivated individuals who take no notice and will be sacked, then it will go to court. That's what usually happens in cases like this.

Schools imposing wrong sex, confusing non-normal English pronouns on all the students for the demands of a tiny minority (without, naturally asking them all if they want special pronouns). .

Schools imposing mixed sex toilets on girls and boys without their consent and against existing law.

Courts compelling women to lie about what they see and call someone they perceive (and actually in reality is) a man as 'she'.

Men forcing their way into women's toilets and changing rooms against women's consent, excluding women.

Journalists obfuscating and lying to their readers by mixing up sex-based and gender-based pronouns in the same article and putting the perpetrators demands above the victims perceptions (or feelings or right to the truth).

I could go on.

But if someone else chooses to respect their choice, they should be criminalised?!?

A four / six / eight year old child with parents insisting they're a trans child?

Who imposes being trans on someone else?!? This just doesn’t exist!

In fact, thinking about this some more I wonder how easily a generation of teachers immersed in gender ideology is going to find it to teach any feminism. Here's a job for feminists of any stripe. Prepare materials to help. Get some influence in training colleges. This is all going to take years of undoing.

I don't see that the EO obstructs teaching about gender as a social construct. It prevents promotion of gender ideology, which is a completely different thing.

It is fair to say that the penalties may make schools think very carefully about exactly what they do teach. In the light of the last 10 years, that is probably a very good thing.

Obviously not, but I don't think this law is critical thinking either.

Is there proof that hormones have any influence on gender identity diagnosis though? Are you trying to say that there is hormonal influences for gender identity? Because if that were true, then there would be easy tests that would diagnose gender dysphoria. But there isn’t.

What hormonal influence do you believe impacts gender identity?

OK so which factors justify removing a teenagers breasts?

Perhaps it was micro-plastics that created the 'goth' and 'emo' youth trends too?

You are not subverting anything if you think that a girl who is at all 'masculine' in appearance, or who likes 'boy stuff' is actually a boy; or that a feminine man who is same sex attracted and likes fashion, is actually a girl.

Were microplastics a big issue in the 18th century? Or at the dawn of human history, as we are so often told people with transgender identities existed then?

First- it’s pretty widely documented that micro plastics impact hormones.
However, I’m not saying that microplastics is the only cause- just that there could very well be other factors contributing.

Sorry, disagree completely - Floisme · Today 19:01 expresses it perfectly.

I'm not sure either what women in Federal prisons and parents of gender distressed children are supposed to do in the meantime - say no to any change until it comes from the 'right people'?

Well exactly

And conveniently the 'right people' are all completely captured so they'd be waiting a long, long time.

What the Democrats are doing are gifting Trump more and more issues that he can sound completely reasonable on.

No, I'm not going to pretend I'm not happy for women in federal prisons, or for US female athletes, or for girls trying to play sport, or for children who've been told the lie that they can change sex, or for parents of children asking for puberty blockers. If I start down that path then, as far as I'm concerned, Trump will have won.

The majority in this country actually agree with the gender critical view, certainly when it comes to sports, prisons, changing rooms, sex meaning biological sex in the Equality Act. Know your audience. If you think talking about the EOs will help - do it. If you think it will make the situation worse - avoid it.

I don't think we should be cheering Trump's EOs. The vast majority in this country will not separate what Trump is doing on the trans issue from every other harmful thing he is doing.

Focus on this country.

What weapon would we handing genderists?

It would be nice if you bothered to remember this started off as a feminist pushback and we welcomed conservative women who wanted to join us.

Who does this we refer to? Is it akin to the Royal we?

How very big of the we group to welcome conservative women. How very condescending you sound as if conservative women are just not quite the right sort of women and here's me thinking feminism is for all women.

I'm not at all confused. I'm pointing out that this law also affects children experimenting with and subverting gender constructs.

If Trump had wanted to allow children to explore and understand that gender is an oppressive, sexist construct, he could have put feminism on the curriculum and ensured schools had to teach critical thinking around gender: a very positive approach to the problem of (scarily undereducated) children thinking they could change sex to escape gender constructs.

Trump doesn't want people to think critically about gender, nor to subvert stereotypes, and this law obstructs both.