The Guardian, on Trump's EO re: gender ideology

Can we ask what you said, please? It might be real handy.

Hmm i hope they believed, not just did it to keep the peace... looks like DP is going that way... he's BORED of the subject of women's rights 🤬

I think I might have bored them into submission. I have a relevant degree, they don't.

I think I might have bored them into submission. I have a relevant degree, they don't.

I've had Guardian reading husband and Guardian reading son separately do the "ha ha we're all female" thing at me this week.
They know more about it now than they did from reading the Guardian.

Oh, God. Here is that brainless Guardian columnist with her idiotic retort to the "transphobes".
She has to mention her wife, because naturally in her mind her gender realist critics are not gay themselves, do not have gay family member, and are generally right-wing bigots.

Brainwashing children, Guardian

Gosh, when was it? I feel gutted to have missed this, I don't suppose you can tell the story?

i agree that rare intersex conditions/DSDs are a different issue to trans. I certainly wasn’t trying to imply they are connected or somehow the same, though of course some people with a DSD will identify as trans or non-binary. I just don’t like posters pretending to be what they aren’t in order to talk utter nonsense in a patronising manner. I’ve been here - on and mostly off - long enough to remember the long-ago glorious weekend when a supposed female high court judge who had been ‘advising’ posters (wrongly) on the law was unmasked by real lawyers on Mumsnet to be a male social worker (I think) from Wales. Happy days!

People have been (deliberately) confused by far too much discussion about embryonic development and DSDs. Many on these boards (including me!) earnestly believed that once we explain the biology, @seelookhearboo 's DH will just see the scales fall from his eyes, but it doesn't work that way. He sees us discussing, say, the difference between Swyers and CAIS (and, believe me, I'm having to sit on my hands not to join in that discussion, because who doesn't want to show how right they are on the Internet?), and he thinks 'look at all those words! I was right: it really is complicated'.

Now, I just keep pointing out that DSDs are very very rare and also very very well understood.

99.98% of people have a karyotype that matches all of their sex characteristics perfectly. 'Trans' people fall within this cohort. If they start messing with their sex characteristics with drugs and surgery, it doesn't work very well, let alone change their sex.

People with DSDs have a mixture of sex characteristics/characteristics inconsistent with karyotype. They may choose drugs and surgery to preserve health and/or to tip the balance towards one sex or the other for social reasons. It's their choice. The rest of us aren't faced with that choice.

The Graun hasn't released its print numbers since September 2021, but the Press Gazette says the last figure for the Guardian was 105,134 in July 2021 and that if that has fallen in line with rest of the industry its current circulations as of February 2024 would be 60.000.

The Graun website is free and non-paywalled with begging pop-ups. I wonder how many hits it would get with a paywall.

You will have heard that the Observer is being sold to Tortoise Media - no doubt to provide funds to prop up the Graun.

lol. This is rubbish (I was going to say bollocks but…). People with CAIS definitely do have gonads. They have internal testes which produce normal levels of testosterone. However their receptors don’t respond to testosterone and the hormone is transformed to oestrogen which is why CAIS individuals have externally female-appearing genitals (sometimes the vagina is a ‘dimple’ rather than fully formed) and bodies (though no internal reproductive organs) despite XY chromosomes. Their testes do not produce mature sperm, but they certainly exist. Individuals with Swyer do not have gonads - either ovaries or testes. Instead they have functionless, undeveloped tissue. They also have female-appearing bodies and usually some form of uterus.

The other name for Swyers is Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. That affects development, not the initial state of being male or female. Complete insensitivity means no gonads develop but, remember, gonads are a secondary sexual characteristic. The original sperm producing potential is not realized at all, but it doesn't change what it originally was before development was stymied.

🙄 Does he understand then that he has been ‘radicalised’ by the far left? Inexplicable really in this case. We are talking about scientific facts (I know you know this - why doesn’t he? The guardian is his scientific fact checker?)

Thank you for this (I mean, for me, it's bleeding obvious. Sperm gives X or Y - that determines the sex.)

Actually, the IVF link above was helpful because it's non-political, non-social media and shows beyond doubt that embryos are male or female before implantation. I'd just like to go a step further and show they are male or female at fertilisation. (I have a very stubborn DP to put right 😆)

The Guardian has been rubbish at reporting anything scientific for at least 45 years IMO. For a sensible properly researched science article I turn to the Telegraph even though I loathe their politics.

I didn't know this, thank you.

I got into a massive argument with DP about this. He's still stuck in "well, the Guardian says...." and "you've been radicalised by the far-right". So, apparently I'm a fascist for saying that sex is determined at conception.