The Guardian, on Trump's EO re: gender ideology

How the guardian editiors don't get neck pain from changing sides so quickly:

About women in UK prisons and their treatment and lack of care:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/feb/05/basic-lack-of-decency-driving-self-harm-in-womens-prisons-report-says

not getting enough underwear, not enough washing water, no flexibility in when to call family...

vs:
Judge blocking EO to transfer TW prisoners to men's prisons:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/05/incarcerated-trans-women

That's not the same country, of course, but it is crazy to not see the opposites; and the judge's decision is only about potential harm to tw when transferred, while not saying a word about women, who have no decision rights on this. The tw prisoners don't need to "do" anything; their mere presence in a prison with women is not tolerable. The women have no spaces to themselves (once again).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_States#Justice_system

I love and admire America, but some stuff has gone very wrong.

@Datun @DeanElderberry

The article completely misses to add some information on past attacks and abuses, separated by male / female /tm /tw, so that readers can have balanced information. There is only one group picked out, and of course they should not be attacked in prison, but neither should anyone else.

It would be interesting, too, to know how many people had surgery, because there will be in fact a problem with those tm who had a hyrestectomy and are under menopause age, they do need hormones, but they need female hormones. However, they've needed them before, too, but they took male hormones instead. This is one unhealthy mess, for sure. I hope that they would get normal healthcare (like any other inmate) and this could be addressed.

@DeanElderberry Wouldn't that cruel treatment of prisoners not fall under any international human rights law?

Wemaybebetterstrangers

Indeed.

Let’s face it - even when traumatised women speak out (or other women speak out fir them), women are still ignored.

I really think they have a deliberate blind spot. And sadly, who is going believe that a government disregarded women’s needs unless those traumatised women speak out. And we know that female prisoners are subject to more abuse if they raise their head in public.

Can you imagine? Having to ask this dozens of times every day, and knowing the reaction is going to be stupid sexiest jokes, confusion, upset, you constantly have to say yes I know, but we have to ask, I'm sorry, no I don't think you're a woman, yes I understand.

Ffs.

Yep. It has embarrassed HCPs, outraged, upset, confused, and offended patients.

I wonder if anyone will ever quantify the damage done by insisting men must be asked if they might be pregnant. To patients, to HCPs, to general societal relations and trust in institutions.

Yep. I'm a HCP (X-ray) and I'm supposed to do that.

In my last job, NHS, the young female management (B7) staff were the rara squad for this nonsense. We, the people actually doing the job, were expected to not only ask drunk, hairy, bearded 6' truckers called Bruce if they were pregnant, we had to get both them and ourselves to sign for it, then scanned onto their record- then the following morning, 'checked' by those stupid little girls, willingly surrendering the rights their great grandmothers had fought for, as the rest of us destroyed our professional credibility AND risked a smacking from that drunk for insinuating they might be 'gay'.

The sober blokes were the ones who'd eye-roll with us.

An aside, I bet that even once this ridiculousness has been put to bed elsewhere, the NHS will continue to do this.

“People are terrified they’re going to be deliberately put in housing where their chances of being sexually assaulted are extremely high,” he said. “There is no question that as a result of this policy, there will be more rapes.”

How many rapes have there been while males have been held in women's prisons?

They really expect more rapes when the males are moved into the men's prisons?

Or do they mean 'more rapes of males' while ignoring any rapes of females?

Call me idealistic, but I'd say there shouldn't be any rapes, of males or of females.

Didn't they think women might be terrified they were going to be deliberately put in housing where their chances of being sexually assaulted were extremely high, too??

They might have thought of it, they might not have thought of it. Either way, they didn't care. Women aren't real people, after all.

“People are terrified they’re going to be deliberately put in housing where their chances of being sexually assaulted are extremely high,” he said. “There is no question that as a result of this policy, there will be more rapes.”

God, it's so ingrained, they can't even see it.

Didn't they think women might be terrified they were going to be deliberately put in housing where their chances of being sexually assaulted were extremely high, too??

The American prison system is a disgrace - one of the highest rates of incarceration in the world, a tolerance of dehumanising abuse (including sexual abuse) both by inmates and staff, disproportionate rates of black prisoners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

As far as I know, Biden did nothing to tackle that.

“The officials were degrading them and saying disgusting things, like: ‘We don’t have to call you women anymore. Where you’re going, you’re going to be a man.’”
(....)

There were comments, though, that the prison guards were intentionally cruel. I think that's not right, prisoners have rights to be treated humanely.

And yes, this does genuinely sound like transphobia - which the Transactivists have probably brought on themselves by insisting that they are women, pissing a good majority of people off in the process including those TWs who don't go barging into women's toilets or demanding to take part in women's races.

I cannot believe though that there isn't space in parts of the men's prison estate to house them.

@Arran2024
I can totally understand that.

It is just very illogical according to gender logic to have all three, tm, tw and women in the same place.
But that makes clear again that what unites tm and women is that they cannot be in men's jail, so why did officials permit tw (a.k.a. men) in women's spaces? There is just no logic and giant loopholes once more.

I think that trans women prisoners requested a move to a women's prison. Presumably trans men didn't do that. It would be incredibly dangerous for them. Just like in sport where Quinn, the Canadian international soccer player, came out as a trans man but kept playing for the ladies.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/30/trans-people-federal-prisons

About TW prisoners moved from women's jails:

from the article:
"Officers went to trans women’s cells one by one and ordered them out, according to one incarcerated resident, a trans man housed with the women"

So trans men are in women's prisons, not men's prisons. Then why weren't TW in men's prisons - according to the logic, they cannot both be in the same part of the jail?

“The officials were degrading them and saying disgusting things, like: ‘We don’t have to call you women anymore. Where you’re going, you’re going to be a man.’”
(....)
“People are terrified they’re going to be deliberately put in housing where their chances of being sexually assaulted are extremely high,” he said. “There is no question that as a result of this policy, there will be more rapes.”

There were comments, though, that the prison guards were intentionally cruel. I think that's not right, prisoners have rights to be treated humanely. But there are complaints that TW are going to be placed in solitary confinement (temporarily?) because there is no clear place for them and probably to protect them from men in men's prisons, too.

"He said the women were taken to segregated housing, a form of solitary confinement similar to placements people face when they are being disciplined."

It is clear that they are separated for now because they can't be in either place, and not for disciplination, as prisons weren't built with a third space. But the writing is very suggestive.

Not one word on the terror of women prisoners being locked up with men, or the assaults that happened to the women due to this previous policy.

I can't pinpoint any currently, but have read several. I bookmarked them so will have a look.

The amusing thing is the guy on the subs desk who I phoned to cancel the sub, when he asked the obligatory 'could you give us an idea as to why you're cancelling such a long subscription?'- completely, openly agreed with me! I think I used the term 'lefty Koolaid', too

This is it, isn't it? As with Health professionals who have to ask men if they might be pregnant. A whole lot of people agree that a lot of the trans stuff is absolute bollocks hogwash, but we have to keep silent. So while the Trans are demanding their rights we have to forgo ours, we have to censor ourselves in case we get hounded out of jobs or clubs or generally ostracized.

I cancelled my 14 year Guardian sub last year in protest at the asinine, idiotic Jonathan Liew (sp?) sports correspondent on Feb 14 '24 spitting nasty, condescending feathers at the horrible women saying 'no' to men in women's sports.

The amusing thing is the guy on the subs desk who I phoned to cancel the sub, when he asked the obligatory 'could you give us an idea as to why you're cancelling such a long subscription?'- completely, openly agreed with me! I think I used the term 'lefty Koolaid', too 🤭

Let’s hope it doesn’t end in quite the same way.

Thirty pieces of silver is the going rate, I believe

SionnachRuadh · 26/01/2025 12:52

There's a mischievous part of me that would like to see how the Graun would respond were Trump to self-ID as the first woman president.

They'd shit a kidney? I mean, it's slightly more likely than changing sex, let alone most (ie virtually none) scientists agreeing that sex is on a spectrum.

Unless they're watching porn on an antedeluvian computer?

great. I love Emma’s threads. I saw this one when she tweeted.

Glad to see what kind of arguments you used successfully. Thanks

Chersfrozenface · 26/01/2025 10:49

Not to mention scientific illiteracy akin to flat-earthism.

As I posted on the explanatory Twatter thread: I'd like to coin a phrase - Scientific Illiterism.

I emailed QI twice about this ridiculous, utterly unscientific claim, many years ago. I got a rude, patronising reply, telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and then, a stout ignoring.