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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can we talk about bisexuality?

462 replies

Pluvia · 25/01/2025 10:58

Just that really. I'm a lesbian, one of a number seeking to rebuild new lesbian and LGB networks after our established communities and events and hang-outs and culture have been trashed by the TQIA+ brigade.

Lesbians and gay men are feeling really beleaguered. We've seen almost every sphere of gay and lesbian life infiltrated by 'queer', trans and spicy straight people all using the events and groups we've founded for their own purposes — mainly of validation. Pride has been taken over by the T. Our cafes, pubs, bars, all gone.

I think a significant number of gay and lesbian activists are finding it increasingly difficult to work out where bisexuality fits into all this. I'm in a number of different LGB groups and this issue has started to crop up in them. People who join describing themselves as bisexual and wanting to get involved in helping rebuild their local LGB communities turn out to be in long-term, stable heterosexual relationships. Some of them for 20+ years. Some bi people in such relationships want to involve their straight partners on the basis that although the partner is straight, they are in relationship with a bi person who isn't — but who, to the outside world, looks straight.

Does it matter? Well, if you're in a heterosexual relationship you're unlikely to experience the everyday (usually minor) moments that most of us who are out still encounter. Things like the need to come out regularly to people who assume that we're in straight relationships, the slight but still palpable 'othering' that sometimes comes when people realise they're talking to someone who isn't just like them. Sometimes it's much more pointed. And if we hold, say, an LGB club night, so that LGB people can associate without the straight gaze, should we allow bisexuals to bring their straight partners? Doesn't that negate the intention of the event?

Bisexual people who are living in a heterosexual relationship have the security of being undercover. They may not see it like that, of course, but they pass as straight. I'm pretty sure that one of the bi women who's involved in one of the groups I'm in is a straight woman who bases her bisexual identity on the fact that she had a relationship with a woman while at university, many years ago.

I don't know if there's a solution to this. I think lesbians and gay men are much more cautious around the dangers of self-ID and identity politics than they ever were. How are other groups handling this?

OP posts:
ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:57

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:51

@ADHDspoonie I know bisexual women have higher levels of violence fr9om male partners than straight women. I wonder if this comes from some of the kind of disgusting men attracted to bi women because of the stereotypes of being highly sexual and kinky.
That is disgusting and those men should be ostracised.

I know woken in same sex relationships get harassed if they are seen as a same sex couple in public. Disgusting, but still too common.

I would be suspicious of a bi women in a bar alone who had a male partner. I would assume she is on the look for a woman on the side or to join her and her male partner in bed. If it was a bi women at a LB sports club, knitting group or similar i would assume she just wanted to make friends. So context matters.

Apologies for not being clearer, I was talking support groups wise with the last paragraph. I stopped trying to go to them after a handful of times.

Themaths · 26/01/2025 00:54

totally get wanting a space just for lesbians, but it would be nice if the spaces that bi women are supposedly welcome didn't treat us with suspicion because we're in a relationship with a man.
You're not a lesbian, you are in a relationship with a man, what do you want from lesbians, they don't owe you a community.

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:51

@ADHDspoonie I know bisexual women have higher levels of violence fr9om male partners than straight women. I wonder if this comes from some of the kind of disgusting men attracted to bi women because of the stereotypes of being highly sexual and kinky.
That is disgusting and those men should be ostracised.

I know woken in same sex relationships get harassed if they are seen as a same sex couple in public. Disgusting, but still too common.

I would be suspicious of a bi women in a bar alone who had a male partner. I would assume she is on the look for a woman on the side or to join her and her male partner in bed. If it was a bi women at a LB sports club, knitting group or similar i would assume she just wanted to make friends. So context matters.

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:51

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:34

This is actually a form of misogyny and lesbophobia. The man thinks that sex between women isn't really sex, that it doesn't count. Again, you could probably have a whole thread on this.

I'm coming around to the idea that bi women need spaces just for bi women, explicitly stated as such, because lesbians never face this crap that we face. By extension, lesbians should have the right to their own spaces just for them and explicitly stated as such, because they face crap that we don't.

Definitely but it's nice to 'meet' someone who 'gets' it. You're the first person I've come across since I left him almost 5 years ago.

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:48

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:34

This is actually a form of misogyny and lesbophobia. The man thinks that sex between women isn't really sex, that it doesn't count. Again, you could probably have a whole thread on this.

I'm coming around to the idea that bi women need spaces just for bi women, explicitly stated as such, because lesbians never face this crap that we face. By extension, lesbians should have the right to their own spaces just for them and explicitly stated as such, because they face crap that we don't.

I need to find the 'YES' emoji. I'll settle for a GIF!

Typography Yes GIF by Mat Voyce
ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:45

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:23

Seriously, this just shows you have no real understanding of discrimination to raise this.
Some lesbians find it hard to get anyone interested in them. That is not discrimination.
Some lesbians want to be with women who prioritise women, especially lesbians who are also feminists

You have spectacularly missed the point.

Preferring not to date or sleep with women who are bi? That's absolutely fine. A thanks but no thanks would suffice. Treating someone like they're shit on your shoe because they're bi? Absolutely not ok. And that happens on both sides.

When I was with my ex-girlfriend we would often get harrassed in the street, mostly by men if we dared to hold hands or kiss in public.

Not only that, but bi women can experience discrimination in straight relationships too (like the experience I shared above) my experience is not an uncommon one.

I totally get wanting a space just for lesbians, but it would be nice if the spaces that bi women are supposedly welcome didn't treat us with suspicion because we're in a relationship with a man.

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:40

Lesbians do not face thsi from male partners because they do not have male partners. Lesbian couples who look pretty and feminine do routinely get men assuming that the couple might accept a man getting involved

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:34

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:24

He knew I wasn't poly, it was infuriating. It was something he felt entitled to because I'm bi. As you said though, one dick only. It could only be with other women. 😡

This is actually a form of misogyny and lesbophobia. The man thinks that sex between women isn't really sex, that it doesn't count. Again, you could probably have a whole thread on this.

I'm coming around to the idea that bi women need spaces just for bi women, explicitly stated as such, because lesbians never face this crap that we face. By extension, lesbians should have the right to their own spaces just for them and explicitly stated as such, because they face crap that we don't.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:30

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:24

You are talking about chatting to a woman in a gay bar. That sounds like a chatting up scenario.

Saying "thanks, but no thanks" is an option. Visible disgust facial expression, as though I'd just suggested coprophilia, isn't a very nice way to treat someone who is being honest about her orientation because she recognises that it can be a deal-breaker.

Themaths · 26/01/2025 00:25

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:21

No, I'm talking about something that bi women face from male partners who assume that we must be poly. It was an aside in response to that one poster, not actually related to the thread topic.

Nothing to do with gold stars insisting on dating other gold stars, which is something I recognise their right to do. Being accepting of me in a social space that is designated as including me is not the same as inviting me into bed.

My god that's horrific. So sorry. I had no clue that was thing.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:25

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:20

You'd be surprised at just how many lesbian dating profiles have it on there along with the tag line "should have realised it before you slept with a man" etc.

Online dating is a minefield. Tbf though mine had 'No trans' on, it's good to know people's boundaries before you message them.

Edited

No, I was dropping an aside about how when a guy wants a poly relationship, there's only one dick allowed: his.

Nothing to do with gold stars wanting other gold stars.

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:24

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:21

No, I'm talking about something that bi women face from male partners who assume that we must be poly. It was an aside in response to that one poster, not actually related to the thread topic.

Nothing to do with gold stars insisting on dating other gold stars, which is something I recognise their right to do. Being accepting of me in a social space that is designated as including me is not the same as inviting me into bed.

He knew I wasn't poly, it was infuriating. It was something he felt entitled to because I'm bi. As you said though, one dick only. It could only be with other women. 😡

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:24

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:22

It's not about dating, it's about basic politeness in a social space that I'm allowed into.

You are talking about chatting to a woman in a gay bar. That sounds like a chatting up scenario.

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:23

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:21

Of course they can but equally these are our experiences and they're valid too.

Seriously, this just shows you have no real understanding of discrimination to raise this.
Some lesbians find it hard to get anyone interested in them. That is not discrimination.
Some lesbians want to be with women who prioritise women, especially lesbians who are also feminists

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:22

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:20

FFS this is not exclusionary. People can date whoever they want for any reason.

It's not about dating, it's about basic politeness in a social space that I'm allowed into.

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:21

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:20

FFS this is not exclusionary. People can date whoever they want for any reason.

Of course they can but equally these are our experiences and they're valid too.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:21

Themaths · 26/01/2025 00:17

Same. There's a whole thread to be had about the "one dick rule" as well
As in lesbians who won't have relationships with women who have had sex with men? I've mostly heard of this from bisexuals, but in real life lesbians, in my experience, don't mind at all.

No, I'm talking about something that bi women face from male partners who assume that we must be poly. It was an aside in response to that one poster, not actually related to the thread topic.

Nothing to do with gold stars insisting on dating other gold stars, which is something I recognise their right to do. Being accepting of me in a social space that is designated as including me is not the same as inviting me into bed.

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:20

Themaths · 26/01/2025 00:17

Same. There's a whole thread to be had about the "one dick rule" as well
As in lesbians who won't have relationships with women who have had sex with men? I've mostly heard of this from bisexuals, but in real life lesbians, in my experience, don't mind at all.

You'd be surprised at just how many lesbian dating profiles have it on there along with the tag line "should have realised it before you slept with a man" etc.

Online dating is a minefield. Tbf though mine had 'No trans' on, it's good to know people's boundaries before you message them.

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:20

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:17

I don't have a male partner.

I'd be talking to someone in a gay bar and mention being bi and the temperature would drop ten degrees.

FFS this is not exclusionary. People can date whoever they want for any reason.

Themaths · 26/01/2025 00:17

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:04

with my abusive ex who was constantly hassling me for threesomes and a poly relationship because apparently being bi means you're not monogamous.

Same. There's a whole thread to be had about the "one dick rule" as well.

Edited

Same. There's a whole thread to be had about the "one dick rule" as well
As in lesbians who won't have relationships with women who have had sex with men? I've mostly heard of this from bisexuals, but in real life lesbians, in my experience, don't mind at all.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:17

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:15

What groups are you going to where you are given the side eye?
Do you go on about your male partner?

I don't have a male partner.

I'd be talking to someone in a gay bar and mention being bi and the temperature would drop ten degrees.

ADHDspoonie · 26/01/2025 00:15

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:13

In bi-inclusive groups, lesbians still give us the side-eye. I'd rather that you put a sign up "no bis" than that you accept us on paper but not in practice.

This. 😫

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:15

What groups are you going to where you are given the side eye?
Do you go on about your male partner?

MoreAgreeableMyArse · 26/01/2025 00:14

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 25/01/2025 23:18

No, I didn’t use it in a way that means oppression points, I stated it as a rebuttal to your saying
you are female and bisexual you have access to 53.5% of the population.

What on Earth did you mean by this if not in an age appropriate dating context?
what sort of access are you talking about if not dating? I was saying LGB groups have nothing to do looking for a new partner/dating because I cannot think of any other context for your comment about my having “access to 53.5% of the population”

Oh. You really don't get it.
Ok.
I am talking about a dating context, but I think it's applicable to non sexual / romantic/ social contexts too.

If you are female and genuinely looking for a female partner/company , you know you won't have an issue right?

Opening up lesbian spaces to people who have no interest in vaginas, (or allowing them to bring their straight male partners) , or allowing male people in based on identity, messes it up for women who are only interested in women.

This applies to mixed sex gay spaces too.

I feel like this should be obvious. Especially to a lesbian or bisexual woman.

I'm going to paraphrase my position.

It is perfectly acceptable for females who are exclusively attracted to females, to have spaces where no males are allowed.

It is perfectly acceptable for males who are exclusively attracted to males, to have spaces where no females are allowed.

It is perfectly acceptable for homosexuals who are exclusively attracted to people of the same sex , to have spaces where no people who are not exclusively attracted to the same sex are allowed.

Finish.

People who are (or claim to be) bisexual, have no right to those spaces on the basis of their bisexuality.

They are probably welcome (individually) on the basis of their same sex attraction but they have to actually like tipping the velvet/ glazing the donut

And most importantly, you absolute plonkers, they can't bring their boyfriend / husband or girlfriend /wife, which some people seem to be trying to earnestly argue they should be allowed to.

Spare me.

And more importantly, take a look at yourself, you petulant, impressionable... Neo Puritans.

Leave lesbian spaces alone!

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/01/2025 00:13

JoyousGreyOrca · 26/01/2025 00:07

About 98% of groups and events are for LGBTQ or LGB or LB. I have zero idea why women are claiming they are not welcome because a tiny few groups are for lesbians only.

In bi-inclusive groups, lesbians still give us the side-eye. I'd rather that you put a sign up "no bis" than that you accept us on paper but not in practice.

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