Can we talk about bisexuality?

Use whatever label you want. But at least be brave enough to not be in the closet.

Because it’s less hassle @JoyousGreyOrca because it protects me, and because,TBH, I don’t know what ‘official’ label to use and have used both bisexual and lesbian over the years. This is for a number of reasons which I won’t bore you with.

Edited to add - my comment about excluding bi women was in relation to the idea put forward in the OP. I can be in the closet and still go to LGB groups, which I have done.

Of course there are bisexual groups. A quick google shows this very large London bisexual group.
https://www.meetup.com/london-bisexuals/

That starts to sound very like the Trans approach to lesbians. 'Don't be mean-spirited gate-keepers, don't dismiss transwomen's experiences.' I don't appreciate the finger-wagging, guilt-tripping, be kind, be inclusive message. That's what's got us where we are. I'd say that lesbians are allowed to draw their boundaries wherever it suits them and if that means not including bi women who aren't involved in a same-sex relationship then they have my support.

This.

We need clarity on what spaces are for who as well.

@BreatheAndFocus why are you in the closet?
If you were not, you would know that virtually every group includes bisexual women. We are talking about a tiny number of groups nationally that are lesbian only.

The usual definition is that lesbians are only interested in women, whatever their past. So a woman married to a man who comes out later in life as a lesbian is now saying she is only interested in being with women. That is the difference.

You do know disabled lesbians have got together? Black lesbians have got together?
And frankly a bisexual woman who is in a long term relationship with a man has very different life experiences to me.

I think you're gatekeeping and it's not a good look.

A black lesbian is going to have a completely different experience to a white lesbian. A disabled gay man is going to live a different life to an abled gay man. a lesbian from a working class background might have faced more challenges than a lesbian from a wealthy background.

If everyone tries to shut out anyone who they feel hasn't had the same hardships as them then we end up in a network of one.

Yes, some of the comments are shocking. This is why I started to understand biphobia some years ago. I initially thought it was just a made up thing that, if it existed, was rare, but this thread has been quite upsetting.

There’s also an element of….ambiguity(?) too. What is a lesbian/a bisexual woman? We could be exactly the same desire-wise and sexual experience-wise, but we might label our sexuality differently. Somebody here said they identified as a lesbian but had slept with a man. That’s fine. But where’s the dividing line? What if a woman realises her sexuality later in life, having slept with men? Is she lesbian? Bisexual? Fickle??

I label myself as bisexual only because I think it’s the most honest label. I prefer women and I’ve slept with more women but very occasionally I see a man that I think is attractive. For that reason, I say I’m bisexual. However, a friend who’s slept with more men than women calls herself a lesbian? How are you going to gatekeep these clubs that don’t want bisexual people there? What about young people who might still be exploring their sexuality? Or older women whose lesbianism only becomes apparent in their 40s or whatever? And what about women who have never had a sexual partner? Do they have to prove they’re a lesbian? What about lesbians who haven’t had a relationship for many years? Are they ok?

For me, the answer to all those is Yes. Any woman attending an LGB club must surely have same sex attraction? Why push people away for not being a ‘true lesbian’?

A bisexual person bringing along an opposite sex partner is a bit crass, but that’s a separate matter from whether bisexuals en masse should be excluded from LGB stuff. And how would you know?? And if you did know, what would be acceptable? Having slept with one man? One men more than 10 years ago??

The judgement here is so weird. The example above of the married woman who then moved on to a butch lesbian - someone implied that that was because she still really ‘wanted a man’. WTAF!! You could say that about all femme/butch partnerships! It’s equally mad and rude!

We’re enough of a minority as it is without this mean-spirited gate-keeping and dismissal of other women’s experiences. Bisexual women do face discrimination and hate and, as shown here, it’s often from the very people who should understand.

All this has shown me is that I need to remain in the closet and/or change my label. Actually, I’m not a fan of labels at all. They lead to exclusion and tribalism.

I do, if I don't want my whole hand and forearm in cramp. It's never in my life taken me less than 20 minutes to achieve orgasm without artificial assistance.

I never thought it could be only a political choice. Pretty miserable if it was! And unlikely to last.

I cannot comprehend forcing yourself to have sex with someone you don't actually fancy, whether for political reasons or otherwise. Surely, you'd buy a good collection of sex toys and stay single?

Not sure that's a sucess story, it also implies sexual orientation is a choice and something a person has control over.

@thatsthewayitis honestly that is not a happy story. Becoming a lesbian should never be about a rejection of men, it should be about embracing women.

No it is not as simple as this. It seems to be changing for younger lesbians. But many older lesbians who have been out for many decades, simply do not have the extended family relationships straight people are more likely to have. Until 20 years ago, it would have been a rare family not to have several homophobic members. And the older you are, the more family members who would have been like this.

I think of one friend whose parents who have been homophobic to her and her very long term partner in the past. Her sister is bisexual, although does not tell her parents or wider family, she is married to a man, had children, and is totally accepted by the wider family.

Its homophobia and the sense of othering there can be that is common.

Here is a true story:
I was at my lesbian social group (BT. before trans) anyway I was chatting with this woman who told me she had been a happily married straight woman whose husband divorced her. She then dated men looking for a partner and hated the men and the scene.. She decided she'd turn to women, she especially liked butch lesbians and was very happy with her decision.
I thought it was great. She made her choice.. .

Lesbians should stay far away from gay men and only ally poltically with women. The next big thing is surrogacy and gay men are all for rent-a-womb.

Long* in the tooth.

I have had genuine connections with genuine bi women, I have had conversations with women who have been married for decades who state they would dabble buy are primarily straight and lead hetero lives, then have had people literally use me but have been in relationships with men, or had no intention of not being with a woman in a relationship ans just a bit of fun.

As a femme lesbian I've experienced the whole spectrum of bi women.

I think that's why there is so much ambiguity.

It's am minefield for dating. My current partner is bi, but the love of my life. So I'm not being judgemental at all just my experiences.

I think maybe everyone is bi like a scale, no one is completely 100% gay of straight.

I identify as lesbian but still find men attractive sometimes. Just not enough to want to date them, sleep with them or live with them haha.

That's the thing... as a lesbian who is ki g in the tooth... some people are genuinely bi, some people aren't, or prefer men and women are a bit of a phase or a toy.

So it is dependent on integrity of the person who is bisexual.

If might not be to everyone's taste but I'm being honest.

Do the lesbians on here feel they have more in common / would be happier to be in a group with gay men than with bisexual women? E.g if you were going to loose one letter from the LGB why would it be the B? For the purposes of this question please assume that B is a real thing and not just a label used by LG people as a mask or trendy people (who for the record would now be much more likely to use Q or Pan saying you are bi is now actually frowned on by trendy people as they thing it means you are gender critical)

My own personal perspective on this - I’ve found more sympatico / overlap in experiences and discrimination and history between bisexual women and lesbians than with gay men.

Gay men had / have a set of challenges and a history, some of which is very different. Sex between men being a criminal act, aids, GPs not prescribing prep, toxic masculinity, somewhat different attitudes to sex and settling down (at a very general level, lots of exceptions obviously) etc. There can also be misogyny within the gay male community, one example that sticks in the mind was a group of gay guys, two of them friends, asking a group of women loudly why anyone would want to put their mouth on a bloody, hairy, smelly axe wound instead of a nice clean cock and that at least straight women understood this too.

I’m happy to be under the LGB umbrella with gay men for political / legislative purposes, because we all experience same sex attraction and all have the potential to be discriminated against because of it.

A lesbian has a reasonable expectation that pillow talk will pass the Bechdel Test.