Can we talk about bisexuality?

I am unusual in that I’m a bisexual woman married to another bisexual woman. We’ve been together decades. Everyone assumes we’re lesbians, which is fine, but I also feel guilty because there are men I fancy I don’t want anyone to think that lesbians are into men in any way because of a comment I might make about a celebrity. For all practical and legal purposes I’m gay - we weren’t able to get married before the law changed - we were defined by our same sex relationship. We experience homophobia, there are countries we can’t/won’t visit.

if I was in a long term relationship with a man I’d still be bisexual, but I don’t know why I’d be in LGB groups, clubs etc except as an “ally”. In the same way I don’t correct people now who assume I’m a lesbian, I can’t imagine being in a straight relationship and feeling the need to tell everyone I’m bisexual. It does feel like having all the benefits of being in a heterosexual relationship but wanting to be special.

I can absolutely see the crap way the gay and lesbian community have/are treated.

Yes, I think these are important questions (sometimes important to answer, but actually sometimes important to quietly agree not to answer!) for any community gathering. Any community that has gatekeeping not based on precise, articulated rules runs into similar problems to the ones being discussed here. I happen to know that the d/Deaf community has very similar problems about whether, when and how to include hard of hearing people, for example. Ironically perhaps in this forum, I think one of the very few gatekeeping rules that can work in practice, if it is allowed to, is "women only".

Any forum conversation about bisexuality demonstrates the continued existence of biphobia. Including this one.

When I made the naive mistake of holding hands in public with my then-girlfriend, the half-full coke can and verbal abuse that a man threw at us from a passing car were motivated by the mixture of homophobia and misogyny that we call lesbophobia.

Yet lesbians don't trust me (the first lesbians I ever knowingly met, aged 19, literally went silent and blanked me when I said I was bi), and straight men don't trust me and at the same time want a threesome with me. Bi men fair a little better only because they aren't subjected to misogyny: you only need look at threads on this site to see how little straight women trust bi men and many openly state disgust for them.

With this level of hostility from homosexuals and heterosexuals alike, it's small wonder that many of us take the path of least resistance through life and masquerade as straight.

I've experienced a fair bit of bi phobia from both gay and straight people. It's a bit crap.

I'm married to a man. We're both bi. We pass for straight I guess. Doesn't stop us being bi. How would you know if the partner was 'straight' unless you specifically asked? Would me and my husband appear too straight to attend? Even if people knew we're bi, would we still be considered too straight?

Btw, I agree with you on the T takeover.

I can completely relate.

I'm an "older " lesbian (50) and I'd probably only be interested in female only events. With the amount of straight men appearing in gay venues, and the behaviour/watching that they do, I just wouldn't go to something "gay" where straight men come along.

I like women only events, lesbian/bisexual are the same to me. Women attracted to women.

OP, thank you for raising this issue.

I am bisexual and I agree with you. My relationship with my sexuality is extremely complex (for reasons I'd rather not go into here). It is an important part of my identity, but, crucially, my identity is personal and private. This is something the modern "LGBT" movement doesn't seem to understand - it's all about external validation, which isn't healthy.

Very, very few people in my life know that I am bisexual as I have been married to a man for many years. On a daily basis, my bisexuality just isn't relevant. For that reason alone, I choose not to be involved in LGB events. I wouldn't judge other bisexuals who do but I understand the problem of straight partners being present in lesbian or gay spaces. Same as I wouldn't bring my husband to social gatherings for women.

And I'm sorry you've had some less than understanding responses.

I can relate very strongly to this post. I'm in my 50s and married 20 years to a man. I am 'out' to my family, husband and close friends but I have never mentioned it at work - not because I fear I'd be shunned; almost the opposite - there is a very inclusive rainbow-type culture there, and my fear would be that I'd look as though I was inventing my sexuality to gain attention and validation (although I have no need of either).

If I wanted to join a social space to connect with anyone, it would be other bisexual women in a similar situation to me, rather than lesbians. I don't share the struggles of a lesbian, but nor does a lesbian share mine. Namely that I want a monogamous relationship, I wouldn't be happy with a threesome or polyamory (not judging those who are, it's just not emotionally for me). Yet what I am missing sexually has tormented me, throughout my marriage.

When I was a teenager I used to fantasise exclusively about women, and was ashamed (this was the homophobic 80s) but in my 20s this broadened to being equally men and women, often both at the same time. I am unattractive so have had very few real life sexual relationships.

Now, there are times when I want to scream in frustration because I can't be with a woman sexually, but I do take my marriage vows seriously, so there is nothing I can do.

So, don't worry, OP, I am not going to trespass on your territory. But it would be good if you could think a little more before deciding that the straight-passing bi woman has an easy life.

I also agree re: gay and lesbian being different.

The 'queer' scene where I am is just gay men and women get tacked on and culture subsumed into drag/stereotypical gay male culture. Id now prefer to be amongst just L/B women, but where I am the only option for that is a night entirely populated by TIFs 😭

I don't really have an answer, beyond thinking that bringing a straight partner to an LGB event is totally inappropriate.

I do still want/need space to discuss the difficulties I had embracing my sexuality growing up - how repressing my homosexual desire meant I also repressed my heterosexual desire, despite it not having that same stigma. I like to connect with L/B women and chat about our similarities and so on.

But right now I'm with a man, so obviously the dating side of these events isn't applicable to me, and even if I went to the odd event to feel at home or w/e I wouldn't bring my boyfriend - I know he feels upset if another bi woman did that as well!!!

Or do the women who have only ever slept with women feel betrayed if they later find out she was there?

Not so many of them around !

Tricky. Where do we stop, though? The connotations of being lesbian vs being a gay male are quite different in our society - so does it make sense to put the L and the G together?

Maybe part of the issue is that there just aren't bright lines. Someone mentioned a person who identified as bi despite being in a long-term heterosexual relationship because of long ago homosexual relationships, with the implication that that person wasn't "properly" bi. What is properly anything, though? Seems to me that there really are people with all kinds of sexual attractions, and enforcing purity is a dead end. What about the woman who has been in a long-term homosexual relationship, but as a student had a heterosexual dalliance? Does she get excluded from bi events for not being bi enough? Can she attend lesbian events, or is she not lesbian enough? Can she go along to lesbian events if her partner who has never touched a man takes her?

Full disclosure: I'm divorced from one long-term heterosexual relationship, but based on attraction, have always thought that, if I had somehow been born into a society where same-sex attraction was what was expected, I'd have fitted in there too, and had only homosexual relationships. For me, though I like sex, I think sexual attraction is based much more on friendship than on body specifics. I know not everybody is like that, but I think more people are than we usually acknowledge.

Maybe the question is: what are these events for? What is the community for? These days I rather mistrust the idea that any community is somewhere when one can fully relax - there being people around who disagree with you about something fundamental is, in practice, unavoidable. If an event admits only women, and all talk about sexual relations with men is avoided, is that ok? Can the bi woman attend provided she doesn't mention her male partner? Or do the women who have only ever slept with women feel betrayed if they later find out she was there?

I believe it was controversial when the B was added to the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras in the 80s.

Sometimes they are straight and sometimes they are gay - so why do we represent them full time?'

I think this is the heart of the issue. Personally I'd disagree and say actually we're always bisexual but I think do think it's questionable as to where we belong. I also avoid LGB spaces because of complex experiences including the narrative that we're sluts, can't be trusted, can't do monogamy and so on. The same rubbish you see on every thread about bisexuality here.

For a long time I struggled with how to describe my sexuality. One of my Lesbian friends "joked" when we were in our late teens that you could only say bisexual if you were being a "good" bi, I.e sleeping exclusively with women and I must admit I definitely took that to heart for far too long.

I can definitely see why straight males wouldn't be wanted regardless of who they were dating but what about bisexual women dating lesbians or single ones? As bisexual women sleeping with other women doesn't make them lesbians (an argument I've had more than once with girlfriends) so where do they fit in?

i could’ve written this.

I have had relationships with women, and who knows, if I find myself single again, I don’t take turns, so I may find myself in a relationship with a man again. Or not. Would I bring him to an event? Well, if I don’t, does he get labelled as unsupportive? Or if I do, he is a plastic ally? Does he risk feeling unwelcome for a cause he supports? It is not as simple as shutting down access to spaces for people like me.

I think lots of people misunderstand bisexuality. I’m bisexual. When I was younger, I read about biphobia and didn’t think it existed, but now I know it does and it seems to be getting worse.

OP, I understand why a bisexual woman bring her straight male partner might cause some discomfort, and, personally, in that situation I wouldn’t bring a male partner because I’d feel awkward. But, I’m still the same person with the same bisexuality whether I bring a woman or a man. Does that make sense?

Being bisexual isn’t some kind of half-hearted attempt or ‘fake’ attempt at being homosexual - but I often get the impression some people think it is. The only people who understand are other bisexuals, I’ve found. TBH, I’ve largely given up explaining. Sadly, I’m now back in the closet too. It’s actually hard being bisexual - maybe in a different way to being gay, but it’s still hard.

People have all these misassumptions; when you’re with a man you’re wrongly thought of as straight and you’re also looked on with suspicion as you ‘might go off with a woman’ at any moment (so, a kind of double whammy there); when you’re in a relationship with a woman you’re still ‘looked down on’ as lesser, and people start going on about previous relationships; you’re seen as less discerning sexually, when, in fact, I’m actually extremely fussy and find very few people (of either sex) sexually attractive. Your sexuality as someone who’s bisexual is questioned by ‘both sides’, straight and gay, and you’re looked on as ‘other’.

No, I don’t think bisexual people should have to have their own groups. We’re part of the LGB community, and we count too.

I don't think the point is your legitimacy in the LGB community, you are absolutely a legitimate part of the LGB community, but that's not the point. I appreciate that you personally respect the specificity of the lesbian and gay community.

The point that was raised for discussion [and raised tentatively and respectfully, I think you'll agree] is about the rationality of having a 'LGB community' that conflates representing the interests of homosexual people with those of bisexual people, given that homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality are different, with different statuses in society.

I'm bi / pansexual but I only ever joined light events while single / dating women. I ended up married to a man so I'd feel weird going to an LGBT group because I'm not experiencing the challanges of that community - it's a safe place for gays. If I end up divorced and fept like dating again, yeah I'd rejoin at that time. Sp I guess I feel same as you OP regarding events/ membership etc

@Pluvia I'm not illustrating anything. I don't insert myself into LG community issues because I'm aware I'm not welcome. I certainly wouldn't involve my partner. It's just frustrating to constantly be told, as I bisexual woman, that I'm somehow not a legitimate part of the LGB community because i swing both ways.