Can we talk about bisexuality?

Of course, but this is the real world. I think one of the main themes of FWR is that since labels do matter in society, let's make sure the labels are rationally-based and accurately used. So this discussion is an off-shoot of that.

Until reasonably recently many people considered bisexuality a bit of a cop out. Keeping a foot in both camps and being too much of a coward to commit.

What a shame we can't all just be people without needing labels.

So the 'LG+B' community isn't working for you either, ADHDspoonie?
I'm sorry you feel that way, but maybe it's just further proof that they are related - we're all all about rights - but separate communities.

Ok I am very sorry that it came across that way. I will try again but as in my post I genuinely think that if you have a look into the complexity of deaf culture in a deeper way than you could ever explain here you would be very interested.

With you mentioning deafness I thought you had some experience as it rarely gets mentioned in cultural context outside of the community.

What I was trying to say was West Indian culture is narrow to the people who are from or interact with the culture and ethnicity.
Deafness is whole world.

What I ment about cross over both deaf people and homosexuals have been persecuted ostracised and otherd. Both have had cures forced upon them.

More to you interest both have formed groups to support each other where who gets to be in the club is challenging. Exactly like your thread. How culturally deaf do you need to be to be included and who doesn’t meet the criteria. How gay do you need to be to be included and who gets excluded.

I have no opinion on either as it’s not my place but both are very interesting from a human perspective.

I think there are a number of women who call themselves bisexual because they had an early heterosexual marriage with kids, and then later discovered same sex relationships and never looked back. In that context it can be easier to say bisexual than answer more questions from people.

TheCatsTongue It's interesting that 50 years ago, straight people and gay people didn't exist. You were just a person who had same-sex relationships. There was no identity around it. Think of it more akin to hair or eye colour.

1975?? In 1975 there were no straight people or gay people and no identity around sexual orientation?? And being gay was kind-of like hair or eye colour?
And you just got on happily with your life just like a blonde or a brunette with grey or brown eyes got on with their life without any problems from wider society?

This shows a deep lack of knowledge of lesbian and gay history, which goes way back before 1975.

Bi woman here, in a hetero relationship. As someone who is Bi I find it really frustrating that we don't really fit in the LGB community, and we don't really fit in the straight community either.

When I first came out as Bi, I was in a relationship with a girl (the only same sex relationship I've ever had, I've been too self conscious to look as an adult to be perfectly honest as some lesbian profiles on tinder etc can be really fucking insulting if you're bi) I was told quite bluntly "You can like one or the other, not both" and it still feels very much like that over 20 years later. I'm in a relationship with a man and still very much attracted to men and women, I just happen to have fallen in love with someone who is the opposite sex.

Why am I any less part of the community just because I'm in a relationship with a man? I don't go to parades etc because I feel so pushed out by everyone. There is little to no support for people who are bi.

I do also wonder if there is an element with this, of people who in the past might not have "identified" as bisexual doing so now.

When you say 'identified', do you mean privately or publicly?

50 years ago might be too soon now. But historically what you describe was the norm. So not a political or social identity.

The men who have sex with men usage started I think in the AIDS crises. Largely because they were more concerned with reaching the right people than reaching people with a particular social identity, whatever the reason for that. But it also acknowledged that there were a lot of young men involved in prostitution who might not actually be homosexual.

Because they share a clear interest in political rights. Which is what civil rights movements are about.

Let's face it, the reason why bisexual got added onto the Lesbian and gay label was to include other same-sex attracted people who weren't defined as exclusively same-sex attracted, who perhaps flew under the radar of discrimination. It would've been a lot easier if it was just same-sex attracted.

And we even have the scenario (particularly with NHS language) where they say "men who have sex with men", because a lot don't define themselves as either homosexual or bisexual.

It's interesting that 50 years ago, straight people and gay people didn't exist. You were just a person who had same-sex relationships. There was no identity around it. Think of it more akin to hair or eye colour.

When I see LGB events, it is based around same-sex attraction. A lesbian dating night is open to both lesbian and bisexual women to find a same-sex partner.

I think that one thing that is absolutely true is that there is no "right" answer to a question like this.

What is appropriate, and what people will want to do, is going to depend on a lot of different things, the nature of the group, what it's main goal is, and even the specific event. A couples event or family picnic might be a lot different than a more political type of meeting or a protest, for example.

i'm becoming grumpy though I think. I read about someone saying, well, the person I'm talking to have a somewhat different experience and I feel something about that, and I want to say, so sorry, suck it up buttercup. And then I read someone else say "oh, so we are excluded because we've been living in a heterossexual relationship for 20 years and I never actually dated a women, and I was to say, so sorry, such it up buttercup.

I do also wonder if there is an element with this, of people who in the past might not have "identified" as bisexual doing so now. I think this is particularly true of younger people. I don't know with men, but I think that it's actually pretty common for many women to be more open to a kind of low-level attraction to other women. But many wouldn't have gone so far as to call themselves bisexual. Sexuality is not quite as hard and fast for all as some people think, so definitions become tricky.

Tiddlywinkly · I've experienced a fair bit of bi phobia from both gay and straight people. It's a bit crap.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Any forum conversation about bisexuality demonstrates the continued existence of biphobia. Including this one.

There you have it: biphobia is a real thing, it emanates from both lesbian and gay, and heterosexual people, neither L&G nor straight people experience it because they are not bisexual.
That seems to confirm that the experience of being bisexual is specific and different from being homosexual, so why LGB?

Analysis paralysis is not a barrel of laughs.

I think it is useful to offer some perspective. This chat sits under the heading Feminism, where there are real issues. This isn’t. Carry on chatting by all means, but don’t try to shut down others who don’t share your sense of victimisation.

If you’ve got nothing useful to say, but can only throw in sneering sound bites designed to belittle another poster, I politely suggest you go and find something better to do with your day.

In my humble straight opinion. There is an awful lot of cross over in deaf issues, clubs, culture , identity, history of persecution and prejudice and medicalisation than you would believe.

If you are musing then if you have no prior knowledge of it I think you would maybe find some arguments very interesting.

Your other example is quite closed Deafness incorporates every race. culture sexually and religion on the planet Much as does homosexuality x

It does feel like having all the benefits of being in a heterosexual relationship but wanting to be special.

The fear of seeming like this is exactly why I don't mention it at work etc. In practical terms, it doesn't affect anything, but it sometimes causes me a sense of internal disconnection to know I am assumed to be straight.

if I was in a long term relationship with a man I’d still be bisexual, but I don’t know why I’d be in LGB groups, clubs etc except as an “ally”. In the same way I don’t correct people now who assume I’m a lesbian, I can’t imagine being in a straight relationship and feeling the need to tell everyone I’m bisexual. It does feel like having all the benefits of being in a heterosexual relationship but wanting to be special.

Totally agree.

I count myself lucky that my husband is accepting of my sexuality, and he is the 'right' person for me in terms of our interests, outlook, companionship etc. But for the monogamous bisexual, there will always be a sexual chasm that can't be filled, and also a hard-to-define emotional gap because, however much your male partner is your romantic partner, there is a difference in the emotional dynamic.