Can we talk about bisexuality?

What would bisexuality not being erased look like?

And LGB student groups are full of bisexual people, they are easily in the majority.

It's just an overall feeling that bisexuality is erased, that we 'should make our mind up.' So, what am I looking for? I'm in my late forties, I've stopped looking. The community isn't looking to include me - even less so these days - so I just get on with life. And being who I am.

Just to add, there was an organised bisexual community in the eighties and nineties. They were very welcoming to transgender people, people into S & M and kinksters. So unfortunately it simply reinforced the stereotypes about bisexual people being kinky.

@poemsandwine what would you be looking for in being involved in the NGB community?

That is because at the time it was common with young people with internalised homophobia to identify first as bi and then lesbian or gay. Even if they had never fancied even once someone of the opposite sex.

This is why I stay away from the 'community'. I know I'm not welcome. Can't be bothered with it.

I came out at the end of the 80s and the message from lesbians and gay men in the circles I moved in was predominantly that bisexuals didn't exist, or if they did it was because they were all into swinging or something like that, and you had to pick a side. Everything was lesbian and gay, not LGB.

@adminicle The first recorded use of the word bisexual was in 1898. Lots of people after that point would never have heard of the word. So they may not have thought of themselves as totally straight, but they would have had no concept of the identity of bisexual either.

If a night is for LGB then no, straight male partners of Bs should not be there. I also think that Bs who are in long term heterosexual relationships should have the decency not to go, even though technically they are invited. If they are single or in a L or G relationship then that's fine. It's an unpopular opinion I know but the L and the G have been colonised by basically straight people. I have this view mainly because I am more focused on reality than identity or ideology. Bs in long term heterosexual relationships can have their own group if they want to.

There have been bisexual people for decades. But when homophobia was extremely common, many hid this part of themselves from all but a few trusted people. Now more people are open about being bisexual.

In terms of groups, I think you have to think what is the purpose of a group or a social space. There are still gay pubs around, but they are open to everyone. Because their aim was never to have a gay only space, but simply to have a social space where it was safe to be openly gay and snog your dame sex partner for example.

If you are talking about a group where you want people to have more shared experiences, it does make sense to limit the group to women either single or with same sex partners. You are not denying that women in a relationship with a man can be bisexual, simply saying their day to day experiences are different. For example, there is an older lesbian group where I live. It would eb a nonsense for a bisexual woman in a very long term relationship with a man to attend. Her experiences are totally different.

You've specified that you meant how people thought of themselves rather than publicly stating their sexuality, so no one can know how many people identified as bisexual in the past, other than by relying on self-reported retrospective accounts.

My point is that saying more people identify as bisexual now than in the past (taking 'identify' to mean how one thinks of oneself) can only ever be conjecture, there's no reliable evidence to support it. If you were defining 'identify' as being 'out' I would definitely agree with you.

I was thinking of when I was growing up, and earlier.

What you identified as doesn't tell us much about whether people were or were not less inclined to identify as bisexual in the past, though. Sure, there were people in the 70s who thought of themselves as bisexual, that's not really news.

As an L, this thread makes me so sad for all the times we all stood side by side and fought hard for our collective rights, freedoms, and to change social perceptions of all three groups. By the same logic from this thread, why would L's and G's socialise together at all or have a group for both? I have nothing in common with a gay man at all. My lived experience is totally different, my rights and cultural capital is different. My personal safety is different. The issues that affect me are different.
I think we all stand together or separately, but not "L+G" and "B". This sort of divisive nonsense belongs in the past.

Maybe what you are thinking about are questions about what people are, vs what they do.

This relates pretty closely to the issue of identification. Is what makes someone a member of "x" community what they think, or what they do?

It's an old issue, for example you can see it comes up among Christians a lot in terms of questions around baptism, whether you are"born" Catholic, faith vs actions. The answer there is always, both, but where you draw the lines are tricky, and I suspect that is the case with many of these questions around what you think and what you do.

It always seems to me that the rise of identity politics comes first out of certain relationships that are actually material. Even feminism, IMO, because as much about identity as about a material condition, and a lot of bad feminist activism comes out of that way of thinking. And male vs female is probably about the most stable material human difference we have. It has also then been applied to conditions that are less objective, like race and sexuality, and finally even gender identity which seems to be totally abstract.

My own view is that the narrative around sexuality has been pretty strongly pushed for the past 35 years or so in the direction of seeing it as very objective, inherent, unchanging, and biologically determined. A lot of people accept that as a truism, and if it were true, it would suggest that it could be the stable basis for identity. But I would question that - it may well be true for some proportion of people, but I don't think it really explains all the experiences people have or the historical records for that matter - there seems to be in practice a lot of things that affect people's experiences of their sexuality and many people find it changes over time in various ways.

If that's true, it is going to make it a lot harder to define a community based mainly on people's feelings about what they are.

You were saying that people 'in the past' were less ready to identify as bisexual, I was giving my own example of having done this for many years; though obviously you didn't specify how far into the past you meant.

As my message above may try to explain, and it's difficult to explain in text form.

There has been a misunderstanding, I am not writing off a history of bigotry, but discussing the formation of cultural identities around sexual orientations.

And your thread is very much about people wanting to maintain these cultural identities regardless of their current relationship status.

I've seen the bigotry first-hand and TBH I don't associate with these cultural identities and labels, but I understand that is WHAT I am, not WHO I am. (If that makes any sense).

I will add as well that a lot lot of my personal history is lesbian history, but I have nobody really to talk to about this anymore who understands it, so a big bit, 10 years, of my adult life is missing.

It shouldn't matter really. People shouldn't be isolating anyone.

When I was in my 20s, I had a male friend who was my best friend and rock climbing buddy. Some of the lesbians in my town spread rumours I was in a relationship with him and I got shunned a little by wider scene, because of this. Which is crazy.

This as well, is the sensible approach. Thank you 😊 💓

Good post @LeopardSnow. I'm bisexual, I had relationship with women exclusively from my late teens to my late 20s. Although I experienced homophobia in many places, I was never rejected by my heterosexual friends. However, when I started to see a man (which was a complete mistake in many ways), I was totally disowned by my lesbian friends and ended up isolated, which has put me off ever being in "the community" again, although I'm not in a relationship with anyone.

Many studies show that bisexual people have worse mental health and higher rates of substance misuse than heterosexuals or people who are exclusively lesbian or gay, which isn't surprising as we struggle to fit in anywhere.

I also agree that straight partners shouldn't be coming along to LGB things, and there is clearly a wide spectrum of what being bisexual means, but I do know quite a few lesbians who have bisexual partners, so where does that leave them?

It’s a really difficult issue. I am a gay woman and see both sides. It’s important to acknowledge bisexuality but I wouldn’t want to straight husbands/male partners of bisexual women involved in my community. (Imaginary community - I don’t really involve myself in lgbt stuff to be honest. But if I did this is how I’d feel).