I think the spell is finally broken...

No, actually.
It's actually quite refreshing to see it more out in the open lately.
At least people are owning it more, I suppose.

Are you flouncing off dear.

There's discussion of poll results here, about 9 minutes in.

Yes there was a pole that 70% agreed with rolling back 'trans rights' and re-instating women's rights. The Decmocrats will be increasingly unpopular if they continue down this path. They need to break from it and start going back to economic issues, but they are very dug in and it will take a re-birth and perhaps a second term out of office for them to accept it.

Agree that US polarisation is a big problem. As it is here, and increasingly so as the Libdems have flagged in recent years, so we are very much a two-party 'democracy'.

I'm not sure how anyone can overcome this, other than by patient listening and avoiding superficial ad hom knee jerk responses.

I wonder how Reform will impact on this situation? They're increasingly showing strongly in polls.

I’m not reading that wall of text

Apparently that won't stop you giving your unfounded assumptions and incorrect opinions though.

Look, I understand what you are saying. But you are throwing mud here that is not justified, and that is not ok.

The reason why gender identity was so successful was because it made massive inroads by quietly lobbying and silently dismantling policy, safeguards and language in the background with institutions who were eager to signal their progressive instincts for the approval of their peers before then imposing it on their users and customers who had to suck up the real world consequences without being quite sure how it all got fucked up in the first place.

Yes.
I'd add that it was also successful because nothing about gender ideology troubles the patriarchal status quo of big businesses and government organisations. Virtue signalling to the young whilst not troubling the old boys' networks. Win win.

Oops, wrong thread🤦🏻‍♀️
Sorry!

You're about 10 years too late to start with the 'lets have empathy for everyone in this nuanced debate' stance.

This is the position women started at years ago and were beaten down both literally and figuratively by angry men with trans identities.

If women had been listened to, empathised with and respected going back years now we might not have ended up with a hardline stance by a hardline administration.

But women weren't listened to, offered empathy or respect so here we are.

If not nipped in the bud this was always going to end up with one group of men stepping in against another group of men. Contentious cultural issues left to fester always do boil down to tribes of men battling it out in the end. At the point transctivists crossed a line there was no going back and nothing women could do about it at that point.

The reason why gender identity was so successful was because it made massive inroads by quietly lobbying and silently dismantling policy, safeguards and language in the background with institutions who were eager to signal their progressive instincts for the approval of their peers before then imposing it on their users and customers who had to suck up the real world consequences without being quite sure how it all got fucked up in the first place.

But you only get one shot at that. People at an everyday level are alert to the policy creep that preceded the madness.

😂The mask always slips when posters have no intellectual arguments to support the sterilisation and bodily mutilation of the young, the insertion of sex offending men into spaces where women and girls are undressed and the removal of women's sport and language in favour of men.

You can psychoanalyse all you like - but your post hurls around allegations of "pseudo feminist Trump supporters" lacking in "cognitive capabilities" while moaning about "vitriol and aggression" in this "echo chamber"

Methinks a cup of chamomile tea and re reading your very very angry post might give you some self reflection time and generate the ability to focus a little more on the issues raised on the thread and for you to actually hear women's voices?

The Morning Star is most supportive of women's rights and has a firm grip on reality.
Their eulogy on Magdalen Berns moved me to tears.
Right wing?

The next time the Democrats come in they'll be changing it back and on it will go.

I'd be very surprised. Trump has given the issue a massive shot of daylight, and as we've seen, the more sunlight there is, the more the general public realise what's going on, the more the support for gender ideology drops, in the US, and everywhere else.

Well, bully for you. And you can tend to whomsoever you wish.

Telling other people how to feel is manipulative and arrogant, in my view.

The American public is not polarised. They are supportive of sanity. The trans activism is coming from the Democrat party leadership.

Take your fucking virtue-signalling back to the obnoxious 'psychology community' that you come from and which has helped to inflict human-rights level of abuse on vulnerable kids.

If someone pushes me out of the way of an oncoming bus, I don’t give a shit whether he did it out of altruism or because he wanted to impress someone else. I’m still glad he did it.

I think it's a shame that it's so polarised in the US. The next time the Democrats come in they'll be changing it back and on it will go. There are a few things like that that have been going on for decades.

This is mumsnet - we are mums. When you become a mum you become (usually) unconditionally full of love and protection for your child. You also get hit very hard with the biological realities of being a woman. Since we are mainly adults in age, we are going to have more life experience including more reasons to know about sexual assaults and when our sons and daughters navigate puberty and the teenage years it is very apparent the trends of what’s happening. It’s very obvious that we’re going to be realists compared to idealists. Talking about concepts is a load of cobblers as you are in the thick of it.

When it comes to children’s and women’s safety mums are not thinking about where to be in allegiance with the political parties on the left or right. We are thinking about children’s and women’s safety.

Fortunately my empathy isn’t finite.

I’m not reading that wall of text, I have a job and a life to live today - not to be spent arguing with a bunch of pseudo feminist Trump supporters who are regurgitating the same condescending phrases, just because I dared speak about empathy for those who have ‘transitioned’ under gender ideology. It’s not about ‘be kind’, it’s just basic humanity.

Those who do not have the cognitive capabilities to understand that someone is capable of concern for those people whilst also holding the belief that gender ideology is toxic, are pointless to engage with. The amount of vitriol and aggression in this thread is shameful, enjoy your little echo chamber - I am glad this is not reflective of life in the UK.

We were never allowed them, i had my first (and last) after i'd left home. Urgh.

Did love a Birds Eye chicken pie though. Still have those now and again.

But seriously: i wonder if whoever it was (I forget, also distracted by food) realises what 2nd wave feminism was all about? it wasn't all hairy legs, saggy boobs and dungarees.

And who can forget all those beautifully made-up young new romantic men/boys? (i lived on a military base, even some of the soldiers weren't above a bit of eye liner on a Saturday night, especially when they found out how much we loved it) I often think early Izzard (it's not a woman's dress, it's my dress) thought he was like Bowie - who just did whatever he liked and to hell with what people thought about it (which also led to a brief flirtation with nazis which i hated so much. He got over that, though)

ETA: forgot to mention in my previous post, i did the sort of equivalent thing when the UK election came up (got my vote back! yaay!) and i'm so right wing that despite their stance on what a woman is, on balance i had more in common with Labour. So i voted for them. HA. If I'm right wing, that makes any party i vote for right wing (although seeing what they're up to, hmm. oh shit. Hoist by my own petard)

What absolute and utter whiffle.

This isn't the case, so it's even stranger that the leadership pushed the TA agenda so hard.
In the latest Ipsos poll, 62% of Democrat voters agreed that the US had gone too far in accomodating trans people. 67% of Democrat voters agreed that MCW should not play women's sport. 54% of Democrat voters agreed that kids should not get puberty blockers.

Source was discussion on Megyn Kelly show, comes in at about 9:30 in.

I'm curious about being labelled right wing though. Insofar as we orient ourselves on "right" and "left" lines based on the revolutionary French parliament from 200 or so years ago....

but anyway. I'm i Germany. We have an election coming up. As per usual i use the "Wahl-o-mat" (Vote-o-mat) to see where my deeply held political beliefs line up with which parties. And as per usual i am not surprised (and people around me are definitely not surprised) that i get recommendations to vote for:

Die Linke (the left - they are approximately a splinter group from the German equivalent of Labour who went too far right, requiring a splinter group. Plus some lefties left over from the other side of the wall)
The Communist party - unfortunately never stand where i vote
and
The MLDP - the Marxist Lenninist Party of Germany. I love them. I walked past their stand once and based on my boots (docs) and t-shirt (new model army) they gave me a load of stickers and badges. Got to love stickers and badges.

Pls, someone, explain how that makes me right wing?