German right wing extremist changes gender ‘to be transferred to female prison’

Thanks for the update Chersfrozenface. I didn't realise that Stonewall had now cast out cross dressers. How can they tell the difference between a cross dresser and someone gender fluid I wonder?

What with LGB people leaving and people with DSDs formally leaving, Stonewall are hardly going to have any people left to represent.

Much as it is, in a sense, good that this issue is getting reported more (and the law being exposed as the nonsense it is) its frustrating, but entirely predictable, that it is happening just as Germany is on the cusp of an election in which the far right is looking to make huge gains.

@biscuitandcake , we've all been wanging on for years about this insanity will come home to roost. It's crazy that it takes the far right to wake people up to the possibility of this sort of law being abused.

Oh, they definitely have a sense of humour! the AFD have now started a new slogan "Alice for Germany" which (in German) is a hilarious pun based on the fact that their leader is a woman called Alice and an old political slogan used by.... well it doesn't really matter who originally used it. Its all good pun fun.

Much as it is, in a sense, good that this issue is getting reported more (and the law being exposed as the nonsense it is) its frustrating, but entirely predictable, that it is happening just as Germany is on the cusp of an election in which the far right is looking to make huge gains**. Its similar to how the US Republican party unleashed their "Kamala is for they" campaign right at the very end of the election cycle as a sort of killer blow that the Democrats would have no time or way to counter. Even if the left wing/centre political parties wanted to rethink their position on this (they should) there isn't really any time to do a course correct before the election. Gaaaaahh.

**The AFD are far right. Before anyone pops up to say "you can't call everyone that disagrees with you far right. Marine Le Pen has her own Cordon Sanitairre against them FFS."

That was in reply to @Maerchentante .

Gruber from Allo Allo - farcical!

Hah. Good on you you had the presence of mind to archive - sadly, I didn't. But still had the older tab open so managed to grab a screenshot 🤣. The discussion page in its present state actually lays out what they're doing & why (although they missed out an "ihr" in the "Wirken" section.)

There's actually a well-documented history of many Nazis being cross dressers and therefore trans under the Stonewall definition.

The Stonewall definition was changed on 27th June 2024 to boot out and no longer includes crossdressers.

There's actually a well-documented history of many Nazis being cross dressers and therefore trans under the Stonewall definition.

Cross-dressing Nazis: A German artist found so many photos of them he published a book | National Post

@GrumpyPanda there is also Google Lens.
But I am resisting strongly here... I've done some cleaning and done the shopping so far today...

The latest Wiki update (11:14 CET, 18th Jan) seems to have removed all pronouns out of the article, only mentioning Liebich throughout.
The only time you could argue there's anything "female" in there is when they are talking about a person. In German it is "die Person", so a female word regardless of who you are talking about.

I archived the Wikipedia entry

https://archive.ph/ek2tS

Hang on, I thought we were supposed to be the nazis? 😕

Don't mean to sabotage a busy day but Twitter has an inbuilt translation option under each tweet 😉. Quite aside from Google Translate obviously.

In any case. The wars have moved on to Wikipedia as well. Editors tried to get the whole entry on the lovely lady removed on the grounds that it's playing into a political stunt, but that seems to be off the table for now. It's she/her throughout, with the discussion page emphasizing her lawyers will be quite capable of hunting down transgressing casual Wiki editors by their IP addresses. But that disclosing the dead name is quite allright, 10K fine or not, given that it's not actually disclosing anything the public didn't know all along. Also - for those of you who love and cherish German gendered nouns - it seems the Tagesspiegel has annotated one of its articles to change "Neonazi" into "Neonazi Person."

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marla-Svenja_Liebich

We've somewhat been here before.

One of the complaints about the FPfW leaflet/booklet that Maya Forstater left in the CGD was that it employed bold colours and imagery (the hand in "hands off my rights") that prompted the comparison to Nazi style choices. This emerged during the hearings. (The tribunal members rejected the interpretation.)
AG: I found it pretty difficult to read. It has red evil hand of TW getting women.
BC: you see that a red evil hand of a TW?
AG: it’s a self id person with GRA coming to take women’s rights. That how I see it. It seems quite sinister
BC: it’s using striking imagery in a campaigning tone
AG: that’s correct it’s very similar to blog post
BC: it’s clear points being emphasised are privacy safety dignity fairness in the rights women have for safe spaces?
AG: yes
BC: the hands off my rights is a perfectly normal graphic image opposing the removal of rights. Its not an evil TW hand that’s your prejudice isn’t it
https://hiyamaya.net/livetweets-from-the-tribunal/

128 On 13 October 2018 Ms Forstater posted on Twitter material including a campaign video produced by Fair Play for Women. The video put forward similar arguments to those in the booklet referred to above. Various features of the video, in addition to its message as such, were relied on by the Respondents in support of the argument that it was offensive. It was described as containing “ominous music”: the Tribunal agreed that it did. A cartoon-style hand shown taking away women’s rights was drawn in a way that made it look “evil” or threatening. Attention was also drawn to the red and black lettering used in the video, which Mr Plant said reminded him of the Nazis.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Forstater-JR-AG.pdf

iirc the bemused and somewhat distressed illustrator explained that it was imagery from her Asian heritage, as had been the choice of bold colours. Does anyone recall her name? (MN and Google searches are both letting me down although I think it was about March 2022.)

And the Left says the Right has no sense of humour....

I wish I could read German. But, I'd waste all day on those links, and I have things that need to be done.

Do they mean "the only one we know of" or "the only one the public knows about"?

The only ones we actually notice and care about?

Yes, Schutzraeume means shelters, or safe spaces.

That tranlates to: 'The only people who abuse the new self-determination law to invade women's shelters are right-wing extremist men who want to avoid prosecution. What a surprise.'

Do they mean "the only one we know of" or "the only one the public knows about"?

Does Schutzräume just mean 'shelters' or does it have a wider meaning? Because in this case we're talking about prisons.

Exactly.

The Tamsin Robinson comment on the article made me snort.

That tranlates to: 'The only people who abuse the new self-determination law to invade women's shelters are right-wing extremist men who want to avoid prosecution. What a surprise.'

I’m shocked, how very dare they suggest Marla Svenja is not a ladeeeee.

Morons, this is self ID. If only they’d listened to the boring, cunty kind of women they might not be in this mess.

How do you "abuse" a self-determination law by self-determining?

🤔

Original text: 'Die Einzigen, die das neue Selbstbestimmungsgesetz missbrauchen, um in Schutzräume von Frauen* einzudringen, sind rechtsextreme Männer, die sich vor der Strafverfolgung drücken wollen. Was eine Überraschung.'

That tranlates to: 'The only people who abuse the new self-determination law to invade women's shelters are right-wing extremist men who want to avoid prosecution. What a surprise.'

I think it is extremely stupid naive to think that only right-wing extremist men will exploit this law about self identity.

Fridays for Future have spoken out on the matter:

https://x.com/FFFLeipzig/status/1879456886724104291

German press is waking up:

• https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2025-01/selbstbestimmungsgesetz-rechtsextremist-marla-svenja-liebich-geschlechtseintrag#comments
• https://taz.de/Missbraeuchliche-Geschlechtsangleichung/!6062893/

Waves below the line at Zeit-online, despite their moderation. "She is a woman, of course!" - "Well, told you so." "He's a Nazi, not a transwoman!" lol

I'm looking forward to Svenja's legal representatives asking to be shown exactly where in the German gender change legislation it says one is not allowed to change gender if one does not have the correct political views. Or if one is convicted of specific criminal offences but not others.

Mind is boggling at TWAW in Nazi “font” 😵‍💫