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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronoun policing in hobby groups

137 replies

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/01/2025 09:38

I'm in a Facebook group for embroiderers. I don't do much myself (turns out it's harder than it looks!) but I like seeing other people's creations.

Anyway, the gender wars are raging.

Every so often someone posts a political pattern they've stitched, usually something to do with trans rights, and the comments are an even split between allies cheering them on and other people asking to keep the discussion related to embroidery and away from politics.

This morning someone posted a general message, not related to an embroidery they had done, calling others out for starting posts with, "Hey ladies!" or similar, saying that not everyone in the group is a woman, and signing off "from this enby".

The comments were the usual shit show that I have come to expect, with half the commenters saying, "stop ramming your special identity down our throats, we don't care" and the other half bemoaning the transphobia in the group.

But what I noticed was that several people posted to thank the person who had posted the comment and saying that they were also not women, and every single one of them was either a female person who identified as non binary, or a trans man. I did not spot one single natal male in the group.

It struck me as odd to pipe up and say, "Hey, thank you, there are men in this group too!" if the only men in the group are female.

I want to say that embroidery clearly is a very gendered activity, but weirdly it looks like more of a sexed activity, if the only people doing it are female, but identify as a range of different genders.

Anyway, that's my random thought for the day.

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Grammarnut · 15/01/2025 10:32

Though men historically have done embroidery, as a profession. I also find it depressing how many women don't want to be women. I think it has something to do with the objectificationa and commodification of our bodies.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/01/2025 10:28

It’s like that train announcement when a passenger complained that using ladies and gentlemen didn’t include the they/thems’.

That was Aimee Challenor. Cue weeks of TFL virtue signalling that they'd changed it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/01/2025 10:27

It struck me as odd to pipe up and say, "Hey, thank you, there are men in this group too!" if the only men in the group are female.

It's very common that "trans men" and women who identify as "non binary" are the ones who destabilise these groups, in my experience.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/01/2025 10:06

Justme56 · 15/01/2025 10:01

I think the most irritating thing is the policing of language whenever anything like this comes up. Most people don’t care whether someone starts with ‘hey ladies’ or ‘hey guys’ it’s the other stuff they are writing about/showing off that’s of interest. It’s like that train announcement when a passenger complained that using ladies and gentlemen didn’t include the they/thems’.

There were quite a few comments to the effect that nobody is complaining when anyone says "hi guys". It's just being called a woman even if you are one that some people find offensive. It's the "male as default/desirable" again.

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Chersfrozenface · 15/01/2025 10:06

Servicemen wounded in the First World War were taught embroidery whist recovering. My own grandfather was one of them - he embroidered the badges of his own and his brother's cavalry regiments.

It was standard occupational therapy for British and Commonwealth troops. It evidently never occurred to the authorities that they wouldn't be able to do it.

Justme56 · 15/01/2025 10:01

I think the most irritating thing is the policing of language whenever anything like this comes up. Most people don’t care whether someone starts with ‘hey ladies’ or ‘hey guys’ it’s the other stuff they are writing about/showing off that’s of interest. It’s like that train announcement when a passenger complained that using ladies and gentlemen didn’t include the they/thems’.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/01/2025 09:53

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/01/2025 09:49

I'm actually wondering whether it has to do with hand span.

I imagine men can knit more easily than they can embroider with small needles.

Maybe!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/01/2025 09:49

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/01/2025 09:48

I follow a Dutch guy on you tube who has a great knitting channel.

Definitely a bloke. Gives out gay vibes!

I'm actually wondering whether it has to do with hand span.

I imagine men can knit more easily than they can embroider with small needles.

OP posts:
AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/01/2025 09:48

I follow a Dutch guy on you tube who has a great knitting channel.

Definitely a bloke. Gives out gay vibes!

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/01/2025 09:47

The more I think about it, the more bloody offensive I find female enbys. Like they think the rest of us are just so happy v with sexism and objectification 🙄

It's like someone who comes from the same home town as you denying it and belittling it and pretending they're from somewhere else because 'oh no dahling I'm not from that shit hole!' . Yes, you are.

pontefractals · 15/01/2025 09:47

Re embroidery being a sexed hobby - there's a cross-stitch magazine I buy sometimes that has a regular column by A Man. I seem to remember at one point there was a fair emphasis on "the man who stitches". Surprise! Not a man.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/01/2025 09:44

Interesting!

And depressing how many women want to be speshul not women.

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