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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Zuckerberg announces changes to free speech on Meta (including the topic of gender)

113 replies

Justme56 · 07/01/2025 15:40

There are a few clips on TwiX but as not everyone e is on this platform I am linking to You tube (apologies I don't know anything about this site). Some interesting points including:

"Second we're going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse. What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas and it's gone too far so I want to make sure that people can share their beliefs and experiences on our platforms."

Who knows if anything will come of this, but it is a change in direction.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcg2DFo68v0

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biscuitandcake · 14/01/2025 22:29

DrBlackbird · 14/01/2025 07:20

Masculine energy I think is good, and obviously society has plenty of that, but I think that corporate culture was really trying to get away from it,” Zuckerberg said

I suspected it when he and Musk talked about a cage fight but that comment confirms that Zuckerberg is proof that being a billionaire doesn’t stop you from being an idiot. An insecure dweeby idiot who only started FB because he couldn’t get dates in real life a now inflicting his opinions on the rest of the world because he’s rich. Masculine energy leading to death and destruction in Ukraine, in the Middle East, in Africa? That masculine energy? The one leading to the environmental destruction of the planet? JFC.

They can surely find a way to harvest masculine energy and use it as an alternative source of power. Rather than building nuclear power plants for AI, they could harness the incredible masculine power of the men of silicon valley. We could go carbon neutral in two years.

DrBlackbird · 14/01/2025 07:20

Masculine energy I think is good, and obviously society has plenty of that, but I think that corporate culture was really trying to get away from it,” Zuckerberg said

I suspected it when he and Musk talked about a cage fight but that comment confirms that Zuckerberg is proof that being a billionaire doesn’t stop you from being an idiot. An insecure dweeby idiot who only started FB because he couldn’t get dates in real life a now inflicting his opinions on the rest of the world because he’s rich. Masculine energy leading to death and destruction in Ukraine, in the Middle East, in Africa? That masculine energy? The one leading to the environmental destruction of the planet? JFC.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/01/2025 23:24

Heylo · 13/01/2025 22:46

What does he mean by changing free expression around gender as well as GI? I’m all for free speech around GI but when he says gender is he referring to misogynistic content?

I expect so.

Heylo · 13/01/2025 22:46

What does he mean by changing free expression around gender as well as GI? I’m all for free speech around GI but when he says gender is he referring to misogynistic content?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/01/2025 22:02

I agree. Wonder if he'll give out copies of Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus next.

biscuitandcake · 13/01/2025 20:28

IwantToRetire · 13/01/2025 18:01

As I am sure most of us suspected, all of this is about men resentful at having to give up their power and dominance.

They only ever paid lip service to respecting women.

Now they are saying its all gone too far.

Let loose the male-ification of the real world and the virtual world.

Wanging on about "masculine energy and feminine energy" is really bleurgh. like... just BE masculine if you want to be masculine. Whittering on about it like a 13 year old girl** discussing her star sign/what kind of witch she would be is just not what I imagine when trying to picture "masculine energy."

**Not being sexist. But it is a 13 year old girl thing.

IwantToRetire · 13/01/2025 18:01

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/01/2025 16:04

Zuckerberg said on Joe Rogan a few days ago that most companies are "culturally neutered" and need to "celebrate aggression a little bit more".

“Masculine energy I think is good, and obviously society has plenty of that, but I think that corporate culture was really trying to get away from it,” Zuckerberg said during a nearly three-hour-long conversation with podcaster Joe Rogan published on Friday.
“It’s like you want feminine energy, you want masculine energy,” Zuckerberg said during the episode of The Joe Rogan Experience. “I think that that’s all good. But I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung toward being this somewhat more neutered thing,” he added, before discussing his passions for mixed martial arts and hunting invasive pigs in Hawaii.

finance.yahoo.com/news/zuckerberg-says-most-companies-more-030653416.html

As I am sure most of us suspected, all of this is about men resentful at having to give up their power and dominance.

They only ever paid lip service to respecting women.

Now they are saying its all gone too far.

Let loose the male-ification of the real world and the virtual world.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/01/2025 16:04

Zuckerberg said on Joe Rogan a few days ago that most companies are "culturally neutered" and need to "celebrate aggression a little bit more".

“Masculine energy I think is good, and obviously society has plenty of that, but I think that corporate culture was really trying to get away from it,” Zuckerberg said during a nearly three-hour-long conversation with podcaster Joe Rogan published on Friday.
“It’s like you want feminine energy, you want masculine energy,” Zuckerberg said during the episode of The Joe Rogan Experience. “I think that that’s all good. But I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung toward being this somewhat more neutered thing,” he added, before discussing his passions for mixed martial arts and hunting invasive pigs in Hawaii.

finance.yahoo.com/news/zuckerberg-says-most-companies-more-030653416.html

UtopiaPlanitia · 13/01/2025 15:15

I keep meaning to watch Idiocracy but never get round to it. You’ve inspired me to move it higher in my watchlist.

I loved Silicon Valley and King of the Hill which were made by some of the same team so I should love this film. Although I didn’t like Beavis and Butthead which was also done by the same team, so…..🤔

And ‘enshittifcation’ is something I’ve been complaining about to my DH for months now but without an actual word to describe it - so now I have a term for it, which is handy.

But I spend more time than I’d like to in contacting customer service departments (or local govt) telling them that they are providing crap service for the money I’m paying. Glib promises to pass the feedback higher up the chain are all I ever get - or maybe a £5 compensation voucher - but I just want organisations to provide the service they claim they can provide. I can’t understand why organisations create a culture that won’t allow employees to feel pride in their work.

IwantToRetire · 12/01/2025 23:00

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/01/2025 22:32

Enshittification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

Specifically looking at Facebook:
https://www.ft.com/content/6fb1602d-a08b-4a8c-bac0-047b7d64aba5 (sorry it's the pay link because I can't access the archive sites from this device - maybe someone else can check if there's an archive link?)

Thanks - a new word for me!

It seems pretty close to a film I saw by chance (made by people I wouldn't normally bother with) about how particularly in the past few years people have become more stupid as they never have to deal with the basics.

And what the future might look like because of that.

Its called Idiocracy or something like that.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/01/2025 22:32

IwantToRetire · 12/01/2025 21:51

I'm not a big defender of facebook, but in the early days it did what it said.

You could post messages either to all your "friends" or a group of them.

They got the message, and might or might not respond.

And if you "liked" a group page you got their posts, which you could then read, and maybe respond or not.

Then suddently facebook decided it would decide whose posts would get through and whose wouldn't.

Just so daft.

A really practical, useful system destroyed because ....what?

It wasn't flashy enough.

Every "upgrade" has made it less user friendly.

Same as google, which now thinks if you ask for news stories from the past 24 hours, either you dont mean it or they think they should include news for a month, a year or even longer ago.

Again a really basic useful function destoyed.

I always wonder what happens in these brain storming meetings.

Enshittification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

Specifically looking at Facebook:
https://www.ft.com/content/6fb1602d-a08b-4a8c-bac0-047b7d64aba5 (sorry it's the pay link because I can't access the archive sites from this device - maybe someone else can check if there's an archive link?)

themostspecialelfintheworkshop · 12/01/2025 22:12

It's not meant to be useful or helpful to account holders. It's purely there to harvest your data and they don't really care how irritating it is to use.

IwantToRetire · 12/01/2025 21:51

I'm not a big defender of facebook, but in the early days it did what it said.

You could post messages either to all your "friends" or a group of them.

They got the message, and might or might not respond.

And if you "liked" a group page you got their posts, which you could then read, and maybe respond or not.

Then suddently facebook decided it would decide whose posts would get through and whose wouldn't.

Just so daft.

A really practical, useful system destroyed because ....what?

It wasn't flashy enough.

Every "upgrade" has made it less user friendly.

Same as google, which now thinks if you ask for news stories from the past 24 hours, either you dont mean it or they think they should include news for a month, a year or even longer ago.

Again a really basic useful function destoyed.

I always wonder what happens in these brain storming meetings.

Brefugee · 12/01/2025 10:45

added to the not seeing things until after the event (and i have contacted organisations in the past about this and suggested they talk to fb about it) is the (and it happens on twitter too) is the sudden refresh so you may have been scrolling and thought "oh, I'll look at that" and BAM! it's gone. Who thought that was a good idea?

EasternStandard · 12/01/2025 05:39

Pp mentioned Zuckerberg doing this now due to Trump which is likely timing

It could be the start of gender ideology finally losing ground

AlisonDonut · 12/01/2025 05:32

Every single time I see a local event, it appears on my FB feed just after it finished. Even if it was posted 4 days prior. Makes it completely useless. I'd have ditched it if I wasn't living abroad from most of my family, and the rest of them weren't in the USA or Canada.

IwantToRetire · 12/01/2025 01:15

not presenting the posts of the people you are linked with in date order (unless you fiddle around with feeds etc which doesn't work in the app)

Worst decision of FB that turned a quite functional and useful social media platform into stupidity.

Instead of prioritising posts from FB friends in date order, they hyphened them off into this feed nonsense, but select which ones you see.

Then to add to the irritation they tell you the next day there is a new post from someone or other, and when you click on that in fact it is a post that has already been shown in your feed.

Its hard to believe that anyone sat down and decided this was a good idea, and would make it more user friendly and useful.

I suspect it was because they want to force you to look at posts on your home page, ie what they think is importatn.

I still get useful info from FB, but its now just a lottery. ie not logical.

I just cant understand the thought process that decided this was a good idea.

Brefugee · 11/01/2025 22:05

i find fb pretty unuseable on account of them not presenting the posts of the people you are linked with in date order (unless you fiddle around with feeds etc which doesn't work in the app) and the fact that you have to scroll through 5 ads and 15 posts from pages you have zero interest in, before you find one post from a friend, then realise it's from before Christmas.

i pretty much use it as a diary.

But. many of my friends are deleting their accounts in a massive panic because now everyone is allowed to be mean about trans people (really. And none of the people i know saying this are trans, or have - afaik - a trans relative or friend). It is a huge panic over nothing. But i am watching and waiting.

Because these same friends also decamped from twitter to bluesky for the same reason. And all i can see is that people are no longer being banned for saying TW are men. So again. I am watching and waiting. (my twitter is still full of football and cats, same as it ever was)

IwantToRetire · 11/01/2025 20:19

Refering back to earlier post, someone being interviewed on a news programme, said the changes to "free speech" will initially only be in America. (Does that mean if I set up an account claiming to be in the US I would be able to say things I cant as linked to the UK.)

And if this works out will be expanded, but that because of ????? in Europe they will not be able to do it.

Did anyone hear this. And if so what was / is it about Europe that means it might to different?

Thanks

RoyalCorgi · 11/01/2025 19:00

Meta has also announced that it will end its DEI programmes. It's almost as if having DEI wasn't a matter of principle but purely one of expediency. Who'd a thought it, eh?

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/10/meta-ending-dei-program

MarieDeGournay · 09/01/2025 16:41

duc748 · 08/01/2025 17:59

What's 'living like a Texan'? Is it like 'living as a woman', except more hat-based?

😂

I couldn't find my own photo from a few years ago of a shop in Texas with a sign advertising that it sold hand grenades - another aspect of 'living like a Texan': nipping down to the local shop to buy hand grenades - so I searched online for a similar.
Not only did I not find one, but there is now a search for hand grenades in my internet search history😱

BonfireLady · 09/01/2025 13:29

This is an interesting article from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwlwlqpwx7o.amp

Not least because they seem to have forgotten to mention that Helle Thorning-Schmidt has a(n adult) child who has a trans identity.

Helle Thorning-Schmidt

Huge problems with axing fact-checkers, Meta oversight board says - BBC News

The body's co-chair says moving to community notes could have a big impact on gender rights and minority groups.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwlwlqpwx7o.amp

biscuitandcake · 09/01/2025 07:52

Most of the "censorship" and anti-GC action that I have read about/heard about happening on Facebook seems to have been along the lines of people being kicked out of groups etc for wrong-speak. e.g. A women's make-up group where a transwoman asks for feedback and receives gushing posts but even mild criticism got someone banned by the admin. Or a breastfeeding support/baby group where someone questions the validity of trans women breastfeeding etc etc. The end to content moderation won't make any difference to this whatsoever - admins still have the rights to kick people out for anything so that won't change (and I doubt people want it to). It is basically going to function like Reddit now. Yes (unlike reddit TBF) people will probably be able to create GC groups. But equally men will be able to share fantasies about being silly slutty girlies (and worse but not typing that here) in their groups. Lots of silos/echo chambers so very little chance to alert new people or change people's minds.

Unlike reddit, most people use facebook with their real names and have friends, family linked etc. So please just be aware (I know that sounds patronising) that if you do start joining/creating gender critical groups/ groups where the admin allows people to comment on trans issues without kicking them out, that they WILL be infiltrated and screenshotted by trolls with lots of time on their hands who will probably also spam anyone "friended" with you as well. I don't want to scare monger people out of speaking freely. But there are very strange people with a lot of time on their hands. I speak openly about what I think in the "real world". But even I would hesitate to do it on an online space where there are people just waiting to screenshot. Especially when my mum is commenting on pet photos on my page etc. At the very least, check privacy settings regularly because they tend to get "updated" a lot by Meta.

SecretSoul · 09/01/2025 07:49

TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged · 08/01/2025 05:21

@SecretSoul thanks for the insider admin view. It seems very odd that trusted admins can't challenge an automated deletion?
Anyway, as you say, "It feels like a way of trying to appease Donald Trump and get on his good side."
I think Musk being appointed by Trump to his executive has got Zuckerburg salivating.

Any admin of a FB group can challenge a post that’s been removed- there’s usually a button you can press that allows you to ask for it to be reviewed. But that’s also an AI check and not carried out by humans so it’s not often you can get the decision overturned via the usual channels.

It’s a very flawed system and as FB grew, they didn’t put much emphasis on providing an accurate and personal experience. They’ve relied on blanket rules and checks, and seem very happy to accept this may lead to incorrect decisions. It’s why you get people using daft phrases like “unalived” rather than “killed” because the algorithm can’t judge context. Although, it’s very naive to think the algorithm hasn’t been updated to include this word now!

With ref to your other point, I think you’re absolutely on the money. Zuckerberg wants in on the bro party…hence the appointment of a Trumper to the FB board. It’s disappointing but not surprising.

SecretSoul · 09/01/2025 07:38

IwantToRetire · 08/01/2025 18:20

I know there are automated deletions, but even these aren't systematically applied. ie I have been able to share posts that others have had deleted. (Not that I believe that tech is infallable.)

That's why I suspect that there are a huge % that are because of individuals, or even networks of people reporting posts.

You said we’ve had a whole bunch of ridiculous deletions

How can you be sure that a % aren't because of posts being reported?

Your admin rule would be irrelevant to that happening.

I understand you cant, dont want to talk about a fb group that could identify it, but if it isn't about contentious issues, with "triggering" words that the algorithms might pick up, its as likely if not more, to be members who have other motives for reporting.

Yes, their automated system is very flawed and inconsistent. We’ve had the same issue with some content being deleted and then not others.

I once got a temporary ban on FB for sharing a GIF that was allegedly explicit. It was one of FB’s own GIFs and the man had his hand resting in his lap - the algorithm interpreted his little finger as exposed genitals 😂🤦🏻‍♀️

Other people had used the same GIF with no issue. The FB automated checking system really is just rubbish.

I’m sure there is a small % of deletions that are due to human reports but in my experience they are very much a tiny minority. If you report something it’s not reviewed by human eyes, it’s an automated check. And frequently no action is taken, even for clear and obvious breaches of community standards. I’m not saying never, but it’s surprisingly difficult to get posts deleted that aren’t picked up by FB’s own bots.

We know for certain that a large number of the deletions have been picked up by the algorithm as we used our access to get them individually checked. Without being too outing, our FB groups are hobby/business related - we have a mainstream group (which is the large one) and then another group dedicated to more provocative/adult themed items. The mainstream group is very uncontroversial and “safe” - but we’ve had WAY more random deletions in there than in the more risqué group! Random deletions can really affect our members’ businesses so historically we’ve spoken directly to FB employees and asked for a manual check. On every occasion the deletion has been due to an algorithm.

An example of one deletion was the word “knob” - used very clearly and in context about drawers. Nope. The post removed and a warning issued. Other people were able to post about drawer knobs. Bonkers 🤦🏻‍♀️

Over the years we’ve had periods where certain groups of people have mounted sabotage campaigns (ex-members who were removed for being abusive to others - it’s a very long story lol). They really were out to try and cause havoc - but they weren’t successful in getting posts removed despite their best efforts.

I appreciate all of this is anecdotal but we’ve really dug deep into the subject of post deletions and spoken repeatedly to our contacts at FB about the subject. I see lots of people venting on FB in other groups about malicious people reporting their posts but in the vast majority of cases, it’s very clear than it’s just the FB algorithm and nothing more. But people are intent on believing they’re being reported when that really isn’t the case. The random and inconsistent nature of FB’s algorithms doesn’t help. Posts that were absolutely fine sometimes randomly get picked up months or even years later!

The FB team that we talked to openly acknowledged that the algorithm wasn’t great and needed work.

Having access to actual humans to talk to made a very big difference for us. FB is particularly poor in terms of customer service and as a norm, most people only get AI-generated responses. It’s very difficult to bypass this and get through to an actual real human unless you have some kind of access like we were given. The difference in responses was like night and day.