Nordic Model Now article on Grooming Gangs

Of course some will make use of this issue to try to make political capital and some will use it to push racist narratives.

The cover ups and collusion and failures to act properly on the issues over the course of so many decades have left those consequences wide open. Thats unfortunate, but could easily have been foreseen. Pile denial on top of cover up and you push the problem further down the road, making the eventual fallout worse.

Both Labour and Tory governments have failed these girls and women. People have acted out of cowardice and carelessness and political motivations.

What matters to me is that this stops happening and the issues are addressed robustly and without fear or favour. That vulnerable girls are cared for and victims are listened to. People in authority need to deal with it.

'white men are just as happy to rape and torture women and children as men of other ethnicities – possibly more so.

There is zero basis to claim this, I agree. Not to excuse the many terrible things white men have done to women and children, but to call out an obvious bullshit agenda-driven statement.

My main point was that the article is written to claim that race has nothing to do with the grooming gangs and cites a half dozen named men as 'evidence' that gangs made of white men are as prevalent as ones made of other races.

Exactly. It's a good article in many ways, but like you I think it's pushing the writer's political agenda in others. Obviously the Telegraph isn't exactly agenda free either, but here it provides both key information and balance. I hadn't read it, so thank you for posting it.

Maybe the issue isn't about some w**ker like Musk, but more that some are just waiting for an opportunity to hijack the horrendous issue of the sexual emploitation of women to score points about how men from some communities are worse that others.

Give over. It's exceedingly clear how little you understand this issue.

On the latter point I'm sure abuse is covered up in many cases and communities.

(I cant even engage with the first point, it's made purely out of bad faith and is specious.)

I suppose OP was arguing that we can't make comparisons when we are not aware of what's been covered up. That's a fair point, but as discussed in the article, there's enough evidence that has been subsequently revealed to discuss it.

My main point was that the article is written to claim that race has nothing to do with the grooming gangs and cites a half dozen named men as 'evidence' that gangs made of white men are as prevalent as ones made of other races.

The correct way to make that comparison to discuss the point the article is attempting to make would be by using proportionality.

As ever, OP, it's a discussion forum and people are going to discuss. Much as you may like to control what is discussed and how, it doesn't work like that.

Quite.

Stop making baseless claims, Rayon.

You’re claiming that @ArabellaScott “genuinely believe[s] sexual abuse of women and girls never happens”. And also that she believes it “gets ignored/covered up outside the Muslim communities in Britain”.

Surely these would be mutually contradictory beliefs? And there’s no reason to think she believes either of them.

I dont know which world you are living in, Iwanttoretire. People are outraged about sexual abuse and cover ups when ever they are exposed and whoever perpetrates them.

The only difference is when its TV personalities or priests no one accuses the outrage of being motivated by an 'ism' and to think about "circumstances that have not been revealed".

But @ArabellaScott isn’t telling the OP to “shut up”. She’s just pointing out that we can all discuss it in the way we wish.

The words you are putting in my mouth here are utterly offensive and disgusting.

Where did I tell anyone to 'shut up'?

And the OP can discuss the article as she wishes, too. You telling her to shut up because you genuinely believe sexual abuse of women and girls never happens & gets ignored/covered up outside Muslim communities in Britain (hang on, hasn't the Archbishop of Canterbury JUST been forced to resign over CSA...?) isn't any more binding.

As for 'nobody said white men are worse', I was responding to this point in the article:

'white men are just as happy to rape and torture women and children as men of other ethnicities – possibly more so. Think of Jimmy Savile, Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter, Jeffrey Epstein, and the multitude of white men on the Epstein flight lists who have never been held to account.'

(my bold).

Citing a few named white men in this context is frankly irrelevant to the point.

What is relevant to the argument is not anecdata, but stats on the proportion of men involved in grooming gangs.

Sadly the problem is so large and common (on this point I agree with NMN) that there is enough data out there to make comparisons.

Also relevant is evidence of institutional cover up.

Perhaps read the article I linked to upthread.

None of this is 'hijacking'. It's directly responding to the NMN article and points raised in it.

How do you know it’s her “first concern”? I think we can take it read that we all think the abuse and its cover-up are horrific.

I think it’s perfectly relevant to point out that the Tory government also rejected a request for a public enquiry. Either there is some legal reason why Oldham council can’t request a public enquiry, or both Labour and the Tories are (or have been) unwilling to have all this properly looked at, in public.

As ever, OP, it's a discussion forum and people are going to discuss. Much as you may like to control what is discussed and how, it doesn't work like that.

Evan Davis did an interesting interview on PM on Thursday 2nd January with Simon Bailey, a former Chief Constable of Norfolk and formerly the National Lead for Child Protection on the National Police Chiefs' council.

He talks about the police "tragically, egregiously, turning a blind eye" to what they must have known was happening in places like Rotherham.

The item starts at 31'42 and goes on to about 39'50"

PM - 02/01/2025 - BBC Sounds

@ArabellaScott - "... That's well documented in the Telegraph article, which I'll find a link to"

This one?

How the grooming gangs scandal was covered up

This ^

It's not about whether men from one culture/ethnicity are more or less likely to sexually abuse women and young girls than men from another culture/ethnicity.

The problem is that if the abusers are not white then the authorities seem to be more keen to turn a blind eye to the abuse in the name of "community cohesion", or for fear of offending a particular group. Or for fear of appearing to be racist or politically incorrect...

I see this sort of problem getting worse with the increasing propagation of DEI training - particularly in public bodies - based on "critical theory" fallacies such as "all white people are racist", "white privilege" and on unconscious bias training.

I wonder what white privilege the poor victims in Rotherham, Oxford and Telford were enjoying?

A large part of the problem with the rape gangs was/is the cover ups, the blind eyes, the lack of response due to fears of community tensions. So.the race/ethnicity of the men concerned is directly relevant, and trying to deny that is compounding the issue.

This.

It's not just about governments. It encompasses all levels of society.

If your first concern is politics rather then women you need to have a long hard look at yourself

Whether "it's a bit rich" isn't really the issue, is it?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kemi-badenoch-musk-starmer-grooming-gangs-b2672889.html

The Tories sat on this for 14 years though so it's a bit rich for them to suddenly demand an enquiry.