Nordic Model Now article on Grooming Gangs

@RayonSunrise is wilfully misunderstanding what you are saying.

Absolutely. In any event, the grooming gangs were an example of rape and (at least in part racially motivated) sexual abuse of children. Often the perpetrators were not prosecuted and the crimes were covered up - partially due to the race of the perpetrators and their victims.

This should be investigated and dealt with properly. Of course there is other rape and sex abuse in the uk but that does not mean we should ignore the grooming gangs

Absolutely. I think we need an enquiry specifically into the grooming gangs and those who covered it up and did not act when they should have done. I personally don't care if the tories or labour supported it in the past. It needs sunlight now.

Thanks for that. It's interesting but does seem to me to be trying to downplay the racist elements of the grooming gang abuse and cover up. Of course it's not the only type of abuse but if you truly care about abuse victims you wouldn't engage in whataboutery every time the perpetrators have an inconvenient identity and behaviour for your woke world view.

There was at least one report of a seven year old and a thirteen year old being found together by police, both partially undressed, with a group of these men. The thirteen YO was arrested.

Nobody’s reported (that I’ve seen) on what happened to the 7 YO, but the assumption has to be that she was left there by the cops.

And the Police genuinely seem to scratch their heads about why the general public would put more trust in an Estate Agent than in them these days 😏

There’s an extremely strong chance that a good proportion of these men were / are not first generation in this country.

If the ‘cultural’ (and I use that loosely in this instance) ties to a rural, socially backward and overwhelmingly misogynistic part of Pakistan are still that strong in second and third generation British citizens then we really are failing in integrating our ‘immigrant’ populations.

Focusing on the bigger picture is welcome but I think the authors should read this article by Julie Bindel and have a rethink about downplaying the religious and cultural aspects of these grooming gangs in particular:

https://courage.media/2025/01/03/islams-feminist-fantasy/

True but if you live in a culture that from a young age tells you a girl is a 'woman' at 15 then presumably the idea of 'barely legal' gets pushed younger.

It's abhorrent but to argue the culture involved played no part is almost certainly wrong and we need to have that discussion openly or nothing will change. What do they teach in the citizenship classes these days? Do they cover how it's illegal and wrong to force any female to have sex and also the age of consent?.

They have been called child rapists but in their culture a 15 year old isn't a girl. In rural Pakistan 15 year olds are married with kids.

Some of the girls were pre-teens.

As far as I can tell, they don't come from Bangladesh. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they seem to be of Pakistani origin and moreover from a particular part of Pakistan.

I would like to know everything about these men. What language do they speak amongst themselves? Probably not Urdu. Which mosques do they attend? Are they Deobandis or Barelvis? We already know that they come from poorer backgrounds because they seemed to be cab drivers mostly. These are all factors which might contribute to their attitudes to girls.

They have been called child rapists but in their culture a 15 year old isn't a girl. In rural Pakistan 15 year olds are married with kids.

It looks like you are a Labour candidate for the next local government election, which has been indefinitely postponed by your leader, STUCK FARMER.

You missed the point I was making. I'm not a Labour supporter, no.

Doesn't matter. They are not from Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, China, Japan, Korea or India. They are from either Pakistan or Bangladesh. Let's call the spade a spade and nothing else.

The "White" guilt of brutality from colonial era has gone too far and has clouded the conscious of brits. Labour are using it to enhance their vote banks. That is why they have even postponed the local government elections because they were certain that defect is inevitable as their leader, STUCK FARMER, is incompetent to the core.

It looks like you are a Labour candidate for the next local government election, which has been indefinitely postponed by your leader, STUCK FARMER.

I agree with you but maybe we can hone in on the cultural aspect. There are different ethnic groups in Pakistan. Many Pakistanis in Britain came from a particular area of rural Pakistan.

Wow, well found, Rethinking!

Chaotically, the discussion that I recalled was in the Rozzers thread. Be prepared for historical discussion along with thoughts about abandoning Christmas dinner preparation and what books people would read when they were arrested.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4967923-everyone-scarper-the-rozzers-are-coming?page=10&reply=131682737

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STARMER TALKING ABOUT GROOMING GANGS .
He describes " Many of them being Asian "
They most certainly are not .

Asia covers a huge number of different Nationalities the majority of them have absolutely no connection with Grooming Gangs .

The truth is -- Many of them are actually of Pakistani Origin . But Starmer won't say this because simply put - he's a fkin coward.

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Nothing is likely to change for our most marginalised girls and young women

I wish I could locate the other thread that I mentioned earlier. Posters gave quotations/contributions in there from C19 discussions in which men were arguing for the right to initiate their sons to sex by taking them to young prostitutes and that was part of the basis for their objection to raising the age of consent.

This feels like an ongoing history of no change.

What possible circumstances could possible be reviled that make this any better?

And an "amusing" footnote -

Nothing is likely to change for our most marginalised girls and young women while the entire British establishment is condoning, monetising, and facilitating the kind of behaviour for which significant numbers of Pakistani men were eventually convicted. If they had been white-collar white British men, the chances are they would have been welcomed in the House of Lords.

Like Baron Ahmed of Rotherham, perhaps?

A better response is "seems there's a pattern here, perhaps we can use our knowledge of this pattern to more quickly identify future cases and to come up with strategies to infiltrate or disrupt these trust networks"

This.

I like the work of Nordic Model Now, and I think they make excellent points in this article about the way prostitution & porn normalisation have played a part. But I agree it's a mistake to ignore or downplay the ethnic/cultural lens here. It's not just about the "political correctness stopped it being seen" angle, although that is relevant: I do believe there are different patterns in the way the Rotherham-style primarily Pakistani gangs operate and find each other and cover for members of their community.

It would be like hearing, "We've found that men who went to private schools are vastly overrepresented as grooming gang perpetrators. It seems they're recruiting each other via their tight alumni networks, and they've got alumni from their schools in positions of trust in the community such as police, councils etc, who are regularly covering for their old school dorm mates when they come under threat of discovery/prosecution. Survivors say that when they tried to go to the press, they were pushed aside as editors feared damaging the reputation of Britain's world-leading private school system. Although they only make up 7% of the population, they were involved in 28% of cases; state school students in 30% of cases; the educational history unknown for the remainder."

And then writing a headline saying "STATE SCHOOL STUDENTS MOST LIKELY TO BE GROOMING GANG RAPISTS".

A better response is "seems there's a pattern here, perhaps we can use our knowledge of this pattern to more quickly identify future cases and to come up with strategies to infiltrate or disrupt these trust networks".

That must surely involve accepting ( and naming) the issues within certain sections of the Pakistani community and addressing those issues at source?

Here's Arabella's post. She was clearly criticising the article, which she has every right to do.

She didn't scold you, you had a go at her first.