Trans remembrance flags and SNP renews support for LGBTYS

So who is included in the death count? Trans people who comfort eat, become obese and die of CHD? Where is the line?

You say there is no reliable dataset, so why should there be a day of rememberance? Should we have one for women with curly hair, because, just theoretically, they might be at higher risk too?

The narrative has always been that trans people are at much higher risk of being murdered, and that the day is commemorating those victims. Now, that it turns out trans people are saver than everyone else, the narrative shifts.

You can’t have missed the arguments over trans and sex questions in the census? Women were so marginalised by the proposed census that they had to raise £100k to go to court (where they won) to ensure statistics would be include women after transactivists influence was on the verge of corrupting all sex data.

Last time I checked, Kellie-Jay Keen wasn't in a position of power.

People who are in positions of power support putting male rapists in women's prisons, letting male athletes compete in women's sport, and women not having access to single sex rape crisis services.

Most of the world's richest corporations turn their websites and logos rainbow flag coloured for a full month every year just to show how much they support trans people. (Because let's be real here, the LGB are just sidekicks.)

Women have been excluded from public life so that trans people can be included, and fired from their jobs because trans people are offended.

Women have been investigated by the police for non-crimes, simply for not agreeing that trans women are women.

But yeah, Posie Parker.

😆 Of course it is happening, don't be so ridiculous as to pretend it isn't. Nobody with an ounce of common sense will fall for it.

So neither of those things are happening at the moment? So theyare no marginalised? Unlike, say, disabled people who are unable to access a huge proportion of housing and have very low employment rates?

I think we’ve already debunked the nonsense that this was specifically done to commemorate Tiffany Scott above. Let’s not go back over old ground.

Can you point to the present position please?

Just had a quick look - an article dating from 2018 saying ONS doesn’t record trans. Of course that is no longer true. It also confirms the good news for trans individuals that they are at lower risk of murder than non-trans people.

It's not the 'trans community' that's celebrating it. In this instance, it's Edinburgh City Council. Which means taxpayers are tacitly supporting a memorial to a violent, abusive male who stalked a child.

Given that Posie Parker / Kelly Jay Keen is regularly hero-worshiped on these boards and she is calling for landlords to refuse housing to trans people and and employers to refuse jobs to trans people, maybe that can give an idea of how the marginalisation of trans people is operating in society, for those people enquiring on this point?

What's the difference?

You know that cross dressing is not the same as being trans, right?!

Gosh, I’m somewhat relieved it’s not just me that you choose to be pointlessly rude to

You don't do so bad at it yourself, Elle

Can you name any Holocaust victims who were murdered for being trans?

It’s disingenuous to say that what happened in the Nazi era didn’t happen to trans people, when it is recognised that trans people were sent to concentration camps.

They were targeted for other reasons, mostly because they were gay men or Jewish. Cross dressing was common among the Nazis themselves.

Gosh, I’m somewhat relieved it’s not just me that you choose to be pointlessly rude to 😂it was beginning to feel personal.

Not true sadly - the suicide rate following surgical interventions is very high. Presumably because they realise that the promised land remains unobtainable. Pre-surgical interventions suicide rate is the same as for other men with the same comorbidities.

Fair enough and I guess possibly understandable when you realise there's no way back once you have done that, but the majority of them don't have the surgery.

Hi @MarieDeGournay, sorry my comment was merely meant to say that I wasn’t accusing you of calling me antisemitic. That was a specific (and highly offensive) slur used by another poster (in fairness, one of whom I don’t expect anything else!).

It’s true that the specific term ‘transgender’ wasn’t used in 1930s Germany, and that the terms ‘Transvestiten’ and ‘Transexualismus’ were used instead. However, I think basing an argument on semantics in that way is misleading. By the 30s Germany had a world leading institute looking at the trans experience, and also had a legal mechanism through which trans people could live and be legally recognised as the gender they identified as (rather than that assigned at birth).

It’s disingenuous to say that what happened in the Nazi era didn’t happen to trans people, when it is recognised that trans people were sent to concentration camps.

Again, no one should be turning the Holocaust into some kind of competition between groups affected. I think that’s why organisations NY’s Jewish Heritage Museum have actually been supportive of research in this area.

There’s a really good post at 18.42 yesterday by @suggestionsplease1^^

There isn't a "really good post" that I've seen at 18.42 yesterday by that poster, or at any other time.

Based on that definition I'd say trans people are one of the least marginalised groups of people in the UK. They have hugely disproportionate political power compared to their numbers.

As you may have gathered from my posts, I like to use words and concepts as accurately as I can, and wish others would too, so I think this definition of 'marginalisation' is useful.

the concept of marginalization refers to the systematic exclusion or sidelining of specific groups or individuals from political representation, decision-making processes, and access to resources and rights.
Marginalization Meaning & Definition | GoodParty.org

Although 'who is most marginalised?' should not be a competition, there are real differences in how, and to what extent, different groups experience marginalisation in our society, and it's useful to have a definition as a point of reference to identify those differences.

Not true sadly - the suicide rate following surgical interventions is very high. Presumably because they realise that the promised land remains unobtainable. Pre-surgical interventions suicide rate is the same as for other men with the same comorbidities.

I honestly think it is really distasteful to ham up a very small number of deaths to make it sound like trans people are at increased risk of death from unnatural causes. Lumping murders in with suicides and drug overdoses is also problematic. We don't conflate these deaths in any other demographic to artificially inflate the body count.

Have you ever considered what it might be like for vulnerable trans people who don't understand how these statistics have been manipulated for political reasons, to think that their chances of living into their 40s must be incredibly slim because if they manage to avoid topping themselves someone else will probably do the job for them because everyone hates trans people? What an awful shadow to live under. And for no reason. Because it's not true.

This.

Other men commit suicide in far larger numbers than men who identify as women. And so this is also constructing a false narrative.

Why aren’t transactivists campaigning for psychotherapy and reducing the use of medical and surgical interventions to try and mimic the opposite sex given the increased suicide rate following these medical and surgical interventions?